Arthur and Gwen Rewatching Merline 1x07 - "The Gates of Avalon"

HumbleQueen posted on Feb 23, 2013 at 10:26PM
Now that the show has ended let’s go back and rewatch the episodes with a whole new perspective. We have watched the characters develop and gotten to know them well. Some we love more than others, but now our perspectives have changed as we know how everything turns out. Let’s have fun looking at the story unfold with our new perspectives from when we first watched the respective episodes. (Thanks to the folks over at tvdotcom for ideas we’ve borrowed from them.)


Moderators for Season 1:
HumbleQueen
Sportyshuie
Ellarose88
[others...]


Rules are as follows:

I. We are getting started with 1x01 on Saturday, January 12, 2013 and a new forum will be opened every following Saturday. Moderators will post following the
order in the list above to open threads and we’ll be watching the episodes in sequence. We will then be watching the last episode of Season 1 (1x13) on the week beginning April 6th.

II. Every moderator opening a rewatching thread should copy and paste the information in this entry (Introduction, List of moderators, Rules and Master List) at the top. That way, keeping track of the turns and our progress will be easier and also having the rules at hand will be useful for those who may have decided to join us part way through.

III. Everyone opening a rewatching thread is responsible for reminding the next person in the list to do the same the following Saturday (sending a pm on Friday should do it).

IV. Anyone not being able to open a thread on a particular Saturday can swap turns with the next person in the list (or anyone else) as long as they keep track of their respective turns.

V. People taking part can jump in with comments, but just because you watch and comment on a particular episode does not mean it’s compulsory to watch every single episode to be a part of this rewatching.

VI. Anyone is most welcome to join at any time. Also, new moderators will be added to the list when we get them.

VII. If you don’t have dvd’s or subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime, the first four seasons are available free (with ads) on hulu: link

Also famfan suggested link

VIII. Constructive criticism of characters/actors is always in order, but please no bashing.

IX. Let’s have fun down memory lane. Be inspired to do fanfics, fanvids, and fanart.

Here’s a master list of a twelve items we’ll be looking for in all episodes. The moderator will post the lists (as filled in) at her convenience. Anybody can suggest any they see though. Mods will also be posting their own questions for discussion.

a. Anything that has to do with Arwen.
b. Lives saved.
c. R.I.P. list.
d. Who spent time in the dungeon?
e. Times Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic
f. Great dragon predictions/riddles.
g. Statements about Arthur becoming the great king of legend.
h. What Uther says about magic.
i. Progress or resets in Arthur/Merlin relationship
j. Guest star special characters.
k. Morgana dreams.
l. Knights of the round table appearances.
m. Funny moments or dialogues
Now that the show has ended let’s go back and rewatch the episodes with a whole new perspective. We
last edited on Feb 23, 2013 at 10:28PM

Arthur and Gwen 11 replies

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over a year ago HumbleQueen said…
I always have been captivated by this episode so I'm glad it came to me in the rotation. Here are my questions then:

1. So any thoughts you may have of the weeks villain. This time it’s actually two together. What exactly did they want?

2. Speaking of the week’s villains. Do you see anything honorable in their relationship with each other or did you see it as altogether corrupt. Explain your rationale for thinking as you do.

3. Do you have any thoughts about Arthur’s feelings for Sophia? I know at some point enchantment set in, but do you think he was really taken with her before any magic was involved? Do you think he was just being a guy taken with a pretty face initially? Is there anything in the episode that would give indication that perhaps this interest he had for her was off from the beginning?

4. Once again we have Morgana worried about Arthur. Evaluate her actions in this episode. Anything you want to ask the rest of us regarding her? Any thoughts about her interaction with
Sophia and what Sophia was insinuating about Morgana and Arthur?

5. Do you think Gaius could have made a difference? What do you think he did wrong or right?

6. Seems to me that Gwen had some inkling of Morgana’s potential for magic early on as Morgana told her about the dream and why she didn’t want to tell Uther. Do you have any thoughts about that? Do you think this was a plot hole regarding any future happenings?

7. What did you think of the Sidhes? What did you think of the plot which revolved around them?

8. Any thoughts on how Uther handled Arthur’s “audience” with him to talk about a marriage to Sophia? Did he seem a wise father and king for a change or did you see it otherwise?

9. Any thoughts about what Uther said to Arthur in the court after Arthur acquiesced and his father released Sophia and her father. I mean what he said to Arthur about his first love and what the future would hold? Do you see the irony? Do you remember the other time Arthur said those same words: “You can’t do this?” How ironic, yes?

10. The scene between Merlin and Arthur and then when Sophia and Aulfric came into the room. How do you feel about how Merlin handled the situation? Do you think he was getting through to Arthur? Do you think he could have handled things any different?

11. Do you have any feelings about what they did with Arthur’s character in this episode? Do you think Merlin’s various times of “covering” for Arthur were honorable or not? How badly did Arthur misuse Merlin’s loyalty? LOL. Very funny moments though.

12. Did you learn anything useful?
over a year ago HumbleQueen said…
laugh
Okay I have to throw in a response to the master list m above about funny moments or dialogues. I had such a good laugh with the Arthur and Uther scene at the end with Merlin and his attempts at input on the situation. My favorite lines:

Uther: "Could someone tell me what happened? Someone with a brain."

Uther to Merlin: "Have you some kind of mental affliction?"

Gaius: "I'm looking into it, Sire."

(The look on Uther's face through all this, LOL!)

And then, Uther's comment about a food shortage. Hahahaha!

Okay I have to throw in a response to the master list m above about funny moments or dialogues. I had
MISAforever commented…
I lovee that scene!! over a year ago
over a year ago sportyshuie said…
Nanna!!! glad to have you back! We certainly missed you. Hope everything is fine and well for you. Looking forward to answering this .. Haven't watched it yet but I like this because of it's funny scenes involving Merlin and the stocks as well as how he saved Arthur. That scene in the lake ... Phew, I just love it with the background music. See ya' soon.
over a year ago sportyshuie said…
smile
Answers.

1. I like Sophia. Really. She's bubbly, cute and pretty. And i can't find myself hating her even if she poached Arthur, LOL. Yes. Actually she is the first villainess in the series who wants to kill Arthur for her own selfishness and not because of something Uther did. She and her father wants to go back to Avalon and used Arthur for their own cause which is why i can't hate them. But i dont root them as well, but for once we have a different villain in the series.
I dont like her father much but he did have my sympathy when he sends his daughter by staying behind. Touching but i hate him because he is using the son of another man to save his own blood. That's not fair. You pay for your own sin, you don't cover it through the blood of another.

3. Since he is a prince and a young one as well, he is just having fun when it comes to women. He doesnt really consider anyone seriously which we can all see with him and Morgana. It was the same with Sophia. She is pretty and at first glance, he is smitten by her and later besotted like Merlin says. But nothing serious. And knowing he will never fall for her, she uses enchantment to nail him. So, for me it was just infactuation. That is all. And this line says it all about Arthur and his interest on Sophia.

"He's young, foolish and in love. Give it a week and he'll be chasing after the next girl that catches his eye"

What more can we think.


4. Morgana was being protective, like all sisters do when their brothers are in danger. That's how i see her in this episode. She was genuinely looking out for him and it was nice to see that kind of relationship between them and this is why it makes us hard to believe she could turn against him in a blink of an eye. After so much build up in season 1 in terms of Arthur's and Morgana's relationship, they made them enemies without much depth or story telling, depriving us a proper momentum. Another thing i like of her is the father and daughter talk she has with Uther. For once we see a happy family with father, daughter and son enjoying a proper relationship without hate.


5. Gaius was the biggest plot hole in the Merlin series. His character was deprived of depth and story which could have turned Merlin into serius money making drama. Seriously speaking, he was a fresh breath in the series and yet, he was also the traitor in certain episodes. His silence have caused many unfortunate events and could have prevented so many deaths. Here it is the same. He is Uther's friend and the king listens to him. He knows about Morgana's powers and kept quiet about it. If he had told Uther about it at early stage, Uther wouldnt have contributed to Morgana's transformation. So much could have been spared.
That is why i feel Gaius could have made the difference not just here, but in almost the entire series.
Here, he tries to convince Morgana that she doesnt have any powers but just bad nightmares, something she was curious and Morgause took advantage of. And later, he doesnt talk about the powers to Uther and asks Merlin to investigate instead. If he had taken the matter lightly, Arthur could have been killed. But thank goodness, he had Merlin who despite the age difference thinks a step ahead of Gaius.
I am not saying Gaius is wrong or right here, but he merely opts to hide the truth when the truth can saves lives. And he doesnt learn from his mistake as we will go on to see in the upcoming episodes.


6. If the power of seer isnt considered to be sorcery, then what is it then? In this episode, Gwen seems to know about Morgana's powers but later in season 3, she seems surprised that Morgana has powers. I am not sure if this is how it was suppose to be but i regard this as plot hole. Besides, as the season goes on, we don't see Morgana's premonition anymore. What happened to it? Did Morgause did something to it? Another plot hole for future references.


7. Interesting plot and had our attention glued on something new. I have never known anything about sidhes until i saw this episode. And it was also interesting to have an episode where the lake of avalon makes an entrance. We know why the lake is important now that we have seen the finale but here in this episode the lake serves as the sidhe's resident. And i liked the sidhes returned in season 3 because they are interesting plot to play upon and i wished more care were given to them to describe of their existence. Would have been educational.


8. He was father first and the king. He knows something isnt right the moment Arthur talks marriage and that shows he knows his son well.
Uther says "In love? We had no idea that you were such a romantic had we, Morgana?"
Of course he used his kingly power to get Arthur's attention but it was the father's instinct which made him do it so here, Uther acted like what all father would.


9. Yes, the irony was there for all to see now that we've seen season 3 and that lovely episode which had us all gaping. At least that's how i watched the episode, LOL. When i first saw this episode, when Uther says it, i didnt think of gwen, though i suspected it later but not immediately. I thought there are more girls to come on this series which will have Arthur falling in love and i didnt like the thought of it. But thank god, the other two women happened to be the case of enchantment and Mithian came in late after Arthur and Gwen are soul mates.


All right ... the rest tomorrow.
Answers.

1. I like Sophia. Really. She's bubbly, cute and pretty. And i can't find myself hating h
over a year ago sportyshuie said…
smile
10. This was Merlin's first time handling a situation like this so he was rather clumsy about it. He certainly failed convincing Arthur but he did save him in the end.

11. Arthur is a bully, and it certainly shows. I was rather angry with him treating Merlin badly but then i understand that this is his transformation and needed. So, i forgive him.

12. Never judge a book by it's cover, don't take things for granted ...
HumbleQueen commented…
For sure for No. 12. The book had a pretty cover but it was sure poorly written! over a year ago
over a year ago MISAforever said…
wink
I'm super busy now, but I'll reply tomorrow!
over a year ago HumbleQueen said…
smile
For Number 5, I agree with Shu about Gaius. All through the series this was true. He was a wealth of knowlege, always the one who let us know what exactly was going on with the magic of the particular episode, but usually the one who let us down in the end. He could have been such a rich character and impacted lives But alas, he didn't.. What did the Dragon say last episode that Gaius was good at?

For Number 6, I definitely regard it as a plot hole as Shu says. I'll probably pop off and on with comments. Works best for me.
last edited over a year ago
over a year ago MISAforever said…
kiss
1. So any thoughts you may have of the weeks villain. This time it’s actually two together. What exactly did they want?
--Not my favorites. They were just trying to achive some selfish goals and they litterally were prepared to kill for that. Personally, I perfer some more complex chracters. But as Shu said, it was nice to see some villians who weren't avengeful!

2. Speaking of the week’s villains. Do you see anything honorable in their relationship with each other or did you see it as altogether corrupt. Explain your rationale for thinking as you do.
--Actually yes, they were honorable with each other. He cared deeply for his daughter and that was nice to see. However, I didn't see she cared as much for him. And that was sort of realistic so I liked it.

3. Do you have any thoughts about Arthur’s feelings for Sophia? I know at some point enchantment set in, but do you think he was really taken with her before any magic was involved? Do you think he was just being a guy taken with a pretty face initially? Is there anything in the episode that would give indication that perhaps this interest he had for her was off from the beginning?
--He saw a girl with pretty face and liked her. I don't think he felt anything more than a little crush. If it was that. I think of it as something similar as Gwen and Lancelot. It was nothing serious at all, he didn't plan to go with it anywhere. And he would definitely after a week move on. I didn't see Arthur in series one as romantic guy who would chase girls around.

4. Once again we have Morgana worried about Arthur. Evaluate her actions in this episode. Anything you want to ask the rest of us regarding her? Any thoughts about her interaction with
Sophia and what Sophia was insinuating about Morgana and Arthur?
--I agree with Shu on this one. She was acting like a big sister and that was really sweet. But to think of it as romantic is overstatement.

5. Do you think Gaius could have made a difference? What do you think he did wrong or right?
--Again, I agree with Shu.. I rarely agreed with Gauis's actions as this episode is no difference.

6. Seems to me that Gwen had some inkling of Morgana’s potential for magic early on as Morgana told her about the dream and why she didn’t want to tell Uther. Do you have any thoughts about that? Do you think this was a plot hole regarding any future happenings?
--I think she suspected but as Moragana, considering the whole situation, decided better not to say anything. She was also acting a bit protective. I wish we saw more of that friendship cause I really believe is she told Gwen everything, Morgana might not have turned against her.

7. What did you think of the Sidhes? What did you think of the plot which revolved around them?
-- There wasn't enough of them so I don't have an opinion. They were interesting but as we didn't see them much later I simply forgotten all about them. And their plot, if nothing, was original.

8. Any thoughts on how Uther handled Arthur’s “audience” with him to talk about a marriage to Sophia? Did he seem a wise father and king for a change or did you see it otherwise?
--He was a father first. He knew it meant nothing at all to Arthur and he tried to show him that. I liked it!

9. Any thoughts about what Uther said to Arthur in the court after Arthur acquiesced and his father released Sophia and her father. I mean what he said to Arthur about his first love and what the future would hold? Do you see the irony? Do you remember the other time Arthur said those same words: “You can’t do this?” How ironic, yes?
--It only shows the depth of Arthur's feeling and where his heart truly lies. Unenchanted, he was more determinated to not let Uther go with his plan. And since Uther said it was his first love aka crush, I have no doubts that was actually Gwen and I must say, that in the interpretation of the legend, I approve it!

10. The scene between Merlin and Arthur and then when Sophia and Aulfric came into the room. How do you feel about how Merlin handled the situation? Do you think he was getting through to Arthur? Do you think he could have handled things any different?
--I don't think his magic was strong enough to break theirs, but he at least tried to get through him. I don't see how at that point he could have turned things differently, maybe earlier.

11. Do you have any feelings about what they did with Arthur’s character in this episode? Do you think Merlin’s various times of “covering” for Arthur were honorable or not? How badly did Arthur misuse Merlin’s loyalty? LOL. Very funny moments though.
--He was still a young prince back then, he wasn't mature at all. And he was definitely a bully, so it didn't surprise me at all.. But the transfomation was gradual and it looked real, so I am not complaining.

12. Did you learn anything useful?
--I am going to use a quote from Doctor Who here:
"You know when sometimes you meet someone so beautiful and then you actually talk to them and five minutes later they’re dull as a brick? Then there’s other people, when you meet them you think, “Not bad. They’re okay.” And then you get to know them and their face just sort of becomes them. Like their personality’s written all over it and they just turn into something so beautiful. "
I know this isn't a real answer to this question, but it kinda fits..
HumbleQueen commented…
Very interesting answer there for the last question, Joppa. And it really does fit. So Arthur saw this pretty face which as we know, the person behind it was not all that the face would have had her cracked up to be. Most guys today don't have to deal with a magical enchantment, but they should be careful to find out about the person behind the face before moving too quickly. And may I add, the same would hold true of girls. over a year ago
over a year ago HumbleQueen said…
I just want to say one thing about Sophia and her father. Joppa touched on this. There is a sense in which the love he had for her was an "honorable" thing. It was totally unselfish and protective. But when a person loves another to an extent like that, when they're willing to kill another human being then the relationship is twisted and what could have been honorable no longer is a good thing, but evil thing. And anything evil is never honorable. Joppa I think was right when she says Sophia didn't seem to care as much for her father as he did for her. If she had, she wouldn't have left him behind no matter how much he told her to go on to immortality without him.
over a year ago Arina0122 said…
1. These villains did not want money, revenge, or power. Also, they were different because they were a family unit and they need a mortal soul and I think anyone would do and they chose a prince; the greatest prince of all, Arthur.

2. There is nothing honorable about killing someone else so that you may get eternal life. I agree with the father seem to care more for the daughter then the other way around. Sophia said she only wanted it for both, but it only took a moment for her to said goodbye.

3. I think there was magic from the beginning, something about the way she looked up at him and maybe the music set the mood. As the prince of Camelot, I sure he has seen a lot of pretty girls. Gaius to Merlin about Arthur only just meeting him and also Morgana to Arthur about him never falling for a girl so quickly would be indicators that something was off.

4. Again, Morgana actions are honorable. There was no jealousy behind her actions. Sophia was just trying to throw Morgana off. Sophia even told her father that she could see what they were doing.

5. I think Gaius was right about Uther killing Morgana and that was risky, but he could have taken her under his wing like he did with Merlin. Also, he could have told Uther that he recognized some of the writing on the staff as being magical; he could have said he saw it in the throne room.

6. Yes, this was strange. I think it is the only time they talk about it. As close as they were, Morgana must have told Gwen about her dreams all of the time. Hmm….

7. I did not like the Sidhes. I think the plot here created a big plot hole later when in season three episode six the Changeling. If the Sidhes had being waiting to put one of their own; on the throne of Camelot; why would they agree or allow them to kill Arthur. Seems to me they would have demanded someone else that would not have interfered with their plans.

8. I truly loved it. Not much Uther did please me, but in this case I loved the way he handled the situation. I don’t think wisdom came in to play here; remember Sophia and Aulfric could offer Camelot nothing. As far as Uther was concerned they had nothing and therefore were useless. If it could have benefited Camelot, maybe he would be approving. Also, we know that he had plans for Arthur to marry Elena later, so it just wasn’t in the best interest for Camelot. Wise not sure.

9. Yes, I see the irony. Uther sentences Gwen to be burned to death for using magic to enchant Arthur and here he really was enchanted and Uther could not see it.

10. Yes, I think Merlin was getting through to Arthur. Not sure of what could have been done differently.

11. Yes, Arthur misused Merlin’s loyalty.
HumbleQueen commented…
Really like your answers, Regina. (#3) Exactly what I think too. (#5) Poor Gaius. He could have been a person who had a huge impact on the outcome, but seldom did the thing that was needful. (#7) Very good point. Very much a plot hole. We're on the same page on all your answers actually. over a year ago
over a year ago ellarose88 said…
1. So any thoughts you may have of the weeks villain. This time it’s actually two together. What exactly did they want?

They wanted to return back to Avalon. At first I hated them, thought they were vain and selfish. Of course, I was interested in them because they were the first villains on the show that didn't want revenge but something else. I felt that Aulfric's love for his daughter and I liked that final scene between him and Sophia. You could see how much their loved each other and Sophia didn't want to go to Avalon without her father.

2. Speaking of the week’s villains. Do you see anything honorable in their relationship with each other or did you see it as altogether corrupt. Explain your rationale for thinking as you do.

At first I did not because Aulfric has committed a crime which landed him his sentence in a mortal body. And Sophia was willing to kill Arthur to get that. So for sure, I thought their relationship and just them in general was corrupt. But then when Sophia found out her father wasn't joining and never intended to I felt a little sorry for them. You could see how much this father and daughter loved each other.

3. Do you have any thoughts about Arthur’s feelings for Sophia? I know at some point enchantment set in, but do you think he was really taken with her before any magic was involved? Do you think he was just being a guy taken with a pretty face initially? Is there anything in the episode that would give indication that perhaps this interest he had for her was off from the beginning?

For sure Arthur was attracted to Sophia because let's face it she is a pretty lady. So he was taken with her in the sense that he was attracted to her and wanted to further get to know her. Other than that it was purely the enchantment.

4. Once again we have Morgana worried about Arthur. Evaluate her actions in this episode. Anything you want to ask the rest of us regarding her? Any thoughts about her interaction with
Sophia and what Sophia was insinuating about Morgana and Arthur?


Morgana as we learn in this episode is a seer so I definitely can understand why she was scared and very protective of Arthur when she sees Sophia has arrived in Camelot because she saw her in her vision. Her intentions I believe are one of a older sister trying to protect her younger brother. At this stage, we don't know that Morgana is in fact Uther's daughter and therefore Arthur's half sister, so I think that people thought that maybe Arthur would marry Morgana seeing as she was the King's ward. It never happened and I think it didn't because while Morgana and Arthur may have considered each other, they weren't in love with each other in that way.

5. Do you think Gaius could have made a difference? What do you think he did wrong or right?

I understand that Gaius is trying to protect Morgana from the King; at the same time, I felt that lying to Morgana about her dreams being actual visions was wrong too. Morgana is scared and doesn't know how to explain her dreams and the fact that what she sees in them tend to happen. Deep down, she probably knows that she has magic, but because no one will tell her that she is left alone, by herself with the burden of being able to see the future. I really wished they explored this power of Morgana more and had Merlin try and help her more.

6. Seems to me that Gwen had some inkling of Morgana’s potential for magic early on as Morgana told her about the dream and why she didn’t want to tell Uther. Do you have any thoughts about that? Do you think this was a plot hole regarding any future happenings?

I don't think of it as a plot hole, rather the fact that magic is banned in Camelot and anyone who is found to practice it is executed. And while in this episode Gwen says that Uther would listen to Morgana, deep down Gwen knows that if Uther had a inkling that his ward had magic it would be dangerous for her. So I think that while she suspects that Morgan has magic, she pretends that she doesn't.

7. What did you think of the Sidhes? What did you think of the plot which revolved around them?

I wanted to learn more about them to be honest. And I was sad that we didn't apart from 3x06. I wanted to learn what their purpose was at the lake of avalon etc.

8. Any thoughts on how Uther handled Arthur’s “audience” with him to talk about a marriage to Sophia? Did he seem a wise father and king for a change or did you see it otherwise?

I felt that Uther was talking from experience and obviously knows that his son has had other attractions to other ladies. However, he found it hard to believe that Arthur could be in love with Sophia after such a short time. That and I think that Uther would have been upset of Arthur marrying Sophia because he has always wanted Arthur to marrying a Princess for an alliance/political reasons.

9. Any thoughts about what Uther said to Arthur in the court after Arthur acquiesced and his father released Sophia and her father. I mean what he said to Arthur about his first love and what the future would hold? Do you see the irony? Do you remember the other time Arthur said those same words: “You can’t do this?” How ironic, yes?

Well Uther is pointing out that Arthur may be 'in love' with Sophia but she won't be the only one or the last one. I think Uther said that because he hopes to marry Arthur to a Princess to create a strong alliance and he hopes that Arthur would love that woman. The irony of Arthur saying something similar is sort of ironic in the sense that Uther thinks that Arthur is enchanted when that time he isn't.

10. The scene between Merlin and Arthur and then when Sophia and Aulfric came into the room. How do you feel about how Merlin handled the situation? Do you think he was getting through to Arthur? Do you think he could have handled things any different?

I think Merlin failed to notice that Arthur was under a strong enchantment so he was unable to listen to anything he had to say about Sophia and her father. If he had worked that out, he could have handled it better by pretending to be on board with their relationship before performing some magic to stop them.

11. Do you have any feelings about what they did with Arthur’s character in this episode? Do you think Merlin’s various times of “covering” for Arthur were honorable or not? How badly did Arthur misuse Merlin’s loyalty? LOL. Very funny moments though.

Well to be honest, during the first series Arthur does bully Merlin and misuse his loyalty and status as a servant. That being said, I think Arthur did on the inside appreciate the fact that Merlin saved him.

12. Did you learn anything useful?

That you should use your judgement and not trust people so easily, no matter how attractive they are. Never judge a book by its cover, but rather was is on the inside.
HumbleQueen commented…
Great insights. Glad you finally got to watch! over a year ago
MISAforever commented…
Books and covers ^^ Loved your answes! over a year ago