I've seen yet another comment saying people who thought the Edward/Bella relationship was abusive have either not read the book or have simply 'misunderstood' it, and am completely losing my ability to politely respond when I hear that, so I'm writing this so in future I don't even have to respond, I can link to here and avoid the risk of snapping and going on an all caps rant. I'm pointing out at the start that I'm not accusing all Twilighters of this, there are lots of Twilight fans on the spot who are able to give their opinion in a pleasant, grown up way, and I really appreciate that (virtual hugs for you all). The following is just directed at the people who seem to think that anyone with a different opinion is wrong or oblivious.
When you hear people say the Edward/Bella relationship is abusive (or any Twilight opinion you don't share)you don't have to agree, but if you wish to respond please keep some things in mind:
1. I've read the book. Most of the antis on this spot have read the book. The ones who haven't have made it a point to familiarise themselves with what happens in the books (otherwise how would they have an opinion on it?) many have also seen the movie. Part of growing up is accepting that someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are ignorant on the subject. People just disagree, that's life.
2. I understood the book perfectly well. Not to offend, but this is one I mainly hear from people who are not very well read, because anyone with even small experience with books will be aware that most books aimed at the young adult and above market are more complex than Twilight. It is not a difficult book to understand, it's not even supposed to be a difficult book to understand. Again, the fact that I disagree does not make me ignorant on the subject. It does not mean I did not understand the subject matter. It means you are entering the world of grown ups, and will have to get used to the world not being black and white. You are going to meet people who are as smart as you (some who are smarter) who with perfect understanding can look at the same thing as you and feel a completely different way about it.
For example, while you may not find Edward abusive (and that's fine) the fact is, not all abuse is physical and some people find things like watching someone sleep without their permission, breaking their property to prevent them seeing their friends and telling them what to do abuse. These people are not stupid, they are not wrong, they simply see things a different way than you do.
3. You destroy the value of your own point of view when rather than backing it up with intelligent debate, or something you consider proof, you say childish things like 'you just didn't understand'. When you say that do you think the person you say it to stops and thinks 'wow, I guess they're right, despite them giving no reason why. Maybe I am just dumb'? No, they think 'they couldn't even back up their opinion. No wonder they had to resort to saying things like that'. None of the type of people who say things like 'you either didn't read the book or didn't get it' seem able to explain their belief with intelligent reasoning, while many of the people they are responding to have explained their point and used examples to back up their beliefs. When in place of an explanation you say something that not only puts down the person you are talking to, but makes you yourself seem closed minded nothing else you say will be taken seriously.
4. Just because I can't believe I've heard this more than once, will people please stop saying 'you are just jealous of SM's success'? That is one of the stupidest, least logical things I have ever heard. As someone else has already pointed out many of the antis are fans of more than one very popular author. Why would we be happy for the success of every popular author except one? Why would people be fans of someone like JK Rowling, and never begrudge her success, but be envious to the point of faking dislike towards the work of Stephanie Meyer? Think about that and try to give me a logical explanation, because I'm drawing a blank.
5. People who disagree with you are not the enemy. It just seems like a knee jerk response, that it's easier to scorn people who disagree, to think they are just too slow to see things the way you did, than to accept that they feel differently about something you like. I wouldn't say to someone "If you don't find the relationship abusive then you just don't understand psychology" I am willing to hear other people's opinion without pretending they must be less intelligent than me, please show others the same curtesy. If when you have made your point (and I mean actually made your point. Saying 'No it's not' is not making your point. Tell us why you think it's not) and they have made theirs you still don't agree with each other it does not mean either person is stupider than the other. It does not mean one of you didn't understand, or one of you is less informed. That's just life, sometimes two intelligent people disagree.
One reason it annoys me is that I am willing to hear the opinions of these people, I want to, but rather than give them they just throw of an insult and go. This was never intended to be a hater spot and definitely wasn't intended to be an Anti's VS Pro's spot, it was a place for us to share and debate viewpoints, so if you disagree please take the time to explain in a polite way why.
I've heard a few people say the spot seems like it's just full of haters and no fans, but you know what? Not one of the people I've seen say that has ever got involved in one of the debates. You can't never get involved for your side of the argument and then complain that your side is underrepresented. I think one reason people are putting angry or childish things is because they feel like Twilight is being ganged up on here, but the only reason it feels that way is because none of the pros will get involved. Most of the fans who comment here are either the ones who like the books but still agree with many of the issues antis have with it, or ones who like the books and just use this spot as a place to vent the things they didn't like since on the Twilight spot fans aren't made to feel welcome to air out the issues they have while remaining a fan. That means we aren't getting many comments in the debates from a P.O.V that differs from ours, but that's not our fault, we can't help that the ones who disagree aren't giving their side.
I know it's hard to be the first one to say 'actually I disagree because...' in a room full of antis, but honestly we're nice. We really want to hear your point of view and you wont be hated or judged for disagreeing as long as you're polite and explain your point rather than just saying 'that's not right' or 'you don't get it'. If after you put your point someone answers back disagreeing with what you said it is not an attack it's a debate, so don't take it badly or feel attacked, just respond again debating the points they made (that's important, when responding a second time don't just repeat the original statement without taking into account what they said)
Asvini already did an article about how we do want to hear a pro opinion, and I think one quote makes the point well: "the way to make this spot seem fair and balanced isn't for the antis to censor themselves, it's for the pros to speak up"
When you hear people say the Edward/Bella relationship is abusive (or any Twilight opinion you don't share)you don't have to agree, but if you wish to respond please keep some things in mind:
1. I've read the book. Most of the antis on this spot have read the book. The ones who haven't have made it a point to familiarise themselves with what happens in the books (otherwise how would they have an opinion on it?) many have also seen the movie. Part of growing up is accepting that someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are ignorant on the subject. People just disagree, that's life.
2. I understood the book perfectly well. Not to offend, but this is one I mainly hear from people who are not very well read, because anyone with even small experience with books will be aware that most books aimed at the young adult and above market are more complex than Twilight. It is not a difficult book to understand, it's not even supposed to be a difficult book to understand. Again, the fact that I disagree does not make me ignorant on the subject. It does not mean I did not understand the subject matter. It means you are entering the world of grown ups, and will have to get used to the world not being black and white. You are going to meet people who are as smart as you (some who are smarter) who with perfect understanding can look at the same thing as you and feel a completely different way about it.
For example, while you may not find Edward abusive (and that's fine) the fact is, not all abuse is physical and some people find things like watching someone sleep without their permission, breaking their property to prevent them seeing their friends and telling them what to do abuse. These people are not stupid, they are not wrong, they simply see things a different way than you do.
3. You destroy the value of your own point of view when rather than backing it up with intelligent debate, or something you consider proof, you say childish things like 'you just didn't understand'. When you say that do you think the person you say it to stops and thinks 'wow, I guess they're right, despite them giving no reason why. Maybe I am just dumb'? No, they think 'they couldn't even back up their opinion. No wonder they had to resort to saying things like that'. None of the type of people who say things like 'you either didn't read the book or didn't get it' seem able to explain their belief with intelligent reasoning, while many of the people they are responding to have explained their point and used examples to back up their beliefs. When in place of an explanation you say something that not only puts down the person you are talking to, but makes you yourself seem closed minded nothing else you say will be taken seriously.
4. Just because I can't believe I've heard this more than once, will people please stop saying 'you are just jealous of SM's success'? That is one of the stupidest, least logical things I have ever heard. As someone else has already pointed out many of the antis are fans of more than one very popular author. Why would we be happy for the success of every popular author except one? Why would people be fans of someone like JK Rowling, and never begrudge her success, but be envious to the point of faking dislike towards the work of Stephanie Meyer? Think about that and try to give me a logical explanation, because I'm drawing a blank.
5. People who disagree with you are not the enemy. It just seems like a knee jerk response, that it's easier to scorn people who disagree, to think they are just too slow to see things the way you did, than to accept that they feel differently about something you like. I wouldn't say to someone "If you don't find the relationship abusive then you just don't understand psychology" I am willing to hear other people's opinion without pretending they must be less intelligent than me, please show others the same curtesy. If when you have made your point (and I mean actually made your point. Saying 'No it's not' is not making your point. Tell us why you think it's not) and they have made theirs you still don't agree with each other it does not mean either person is stupider than the other. It does not mean one of you didn't understand, or one of you is less informed. That's just life, sometimes two intelligent people disagree.
One reason it annoys me is that I am willing to hear the opinions of these people, I want to, but rather than give them they just throw of an insult and go. This was never intended to be a hater spot and definitely wasn't intended to be an Anti's VS Pro's spot, it was a place for us to share and debate viewpoints, so if you disagree please take the time to explain in a polite way why.
I've heard a few people say the spot seems like it's just full of haters and no fans, but you know what? Not one of the people I've seen say that has ever got involved in one of the debates. You can't never get involved for your side of the argument and then complain that your side is underrepresented. I think one reason people are putting angry or childish things is because they feel like Twilight is being ganged up on here, but the only reason it feels that way is because none of the pros will get involved. Most of the fans who comment here are either the ones who like the books but still agree with many of the issues antis have with it, or ones who like the books and just use this spot as a place to vent the things they didn't like since on the Twilight spot fans aren't made to feel welcome to air out the issues they have while remaining a fan. That means we aren't getting many comments in the debates from a P.O.V that differs from ours, but that's not our fault, we can't help that the ones who disagree aren't giving their side.
I know it's hard to be the first one to say 'actually I disagree because...' in a room full of antis, but honestly we're nice. We really want to hear your point of view and you wont be hated or judged for disagreeing as long as you're polite and explain your point rather than just saying 'that's not right' or 'you don't get it'. If after you put your point someone answers back disagreeing with what you said it is not an attack it's a debate, so don't take it badly or feel attacked, just respond again debating the points they made (that's important, when responding a second time don't just repeat the original statement without taking into account what they said)
Asvini already did an article about how we do want to hear a pro opinion, and I think one quote makes the point well: "the way to make this spot seem fair and balanced isn't for the antis to censor themselves, it's for the pros to speak up"