Merlin on BBC
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Merlin on BBC You want to that Morgana be good again,like in searies 1?
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Yes,I would that she live in Camelot in peace to the rest.
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No,she is good evil
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Additionally, I'd like to say that I can't imagine being her exactly the same way like in 1 season. I don't want to see that distressed girl again, living like her own shadow, closed in a world built by lies. Her relationships with everyone are important but for me, even how character developed through those years discredit 'going back to being good again'
And, just b/c someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they are attacking you. Criticism is a part of life, love!
"Arthur, Morgana, Gwen and all the characters have been best friends and or family for years, they have known each other for as long as they've been living and you can see that she cares for them through the A&M confrontation scene in 4x13, and the moment after she killed Uther, and the scene in which she was watching Lancelot before he woke up. she's dark, and empty, and hurt, and lost, and has been doing unforgivable things, but she still cares for these people for as much as she doesn't want to and keeps trying not to. but she does, and so does Arthur at least, and i'm sure that being Gwen a good person, if Morgana was truly sorry for everything she did, and if something would happen for her to prove that, that at the end they'd forgive her. they still care for each other and that's why it makes it all so hurtful"
plus, in case you want to check out this Katie's interview:
link
i completely agree with what she says about Morgana's redemption (the part that's related to discovering Merlin has magic, from 4:13 on). i had already written my explanation before comic-con and this interview happened, but seriously, i basically make my words her own. i think she explained it very well, it's the message i was trying to pass through my previous comment.
How can Morgana still love someone who she tried to kill, hunted, kidnapped, stalked, and committed unspeakable crimes to. But, because you think so, I guess it must be right? How can Gwen, not Arthur, Gwen love someone who who has victimized her. If this was the real world, morgana would be considered a murder and a molester (enchanting Gwen so she could commit a sexual act, she is no better than a friend who gave her a roofie and let a guy do whatever to her).
You think Gwen and Morgana were friends. No best friends. Hell No. We don't how long Morgana and Gwen have even known eachother, Morgana has been in Camelot since 10, the show has never told us how long they have know eachother. Heck we don't even know their ages. No you are wrong. When did Morgana show that she still cares for Arwen in 4x13. Transcript please? Morgana has done nothing but be burden for Gwen. She caused Gwen's father to get killed, and then denied she had anything to do with it and then made Gwen's problems about her.How the fuck can someone care for someone when they constantly want them dead. Why the fuck should Gwen forgive morgana for all that she's done to her? Morgana never forgave Uther for the shit he did, she killed him, but since Gwen is a nice person, she should forgive her. What Morgana did to Gwen was just as bad or even worse than what Uther did to Morgana. Morgana is classist too. She doesn't want Gwen as queen b/c it will interfere with her queenship, no, b/c getting ride of Arthur will do just that. Why didn't Morgana try to knock off Mithian or Elena, who could've taken her throne, she didn't care about them, they were her status. She has said many times she don't want that servant to become queen. Who refers to their friend as that Servant? The divide between the classes is there. Morgana doesn't see Gwen as a person no more, but an object she can use and torture. And, please don't give me that BS about how Gwen will become just as worse. NOT KISSING MORGANA ASS IS NOT EVIL, IT'S JUSTICE! And, don't even give me that black&white excuse, b/c we know she loves, Morgouse is a prime example of that, but if you think her/gwen/Arthur still love and care about eachother, well you should win the trophy for most delusional fangirl. How can you love someone who you want to torture and kill? That's not love, that's control. Most Morgana fans accept that she is evil, and continues to like her, but they acknowledge that old morgana is gone, and is not a victim anymore. I don't know if they will redeem her, there are only two tales of Morgana seeking redemption, heck Morgana isn't even in the original welsh legends. But, just b/c Katie thinks she should be redeemed it doesn't mean, eps from Gwen, who has been nothing than a victim of Morgana, should forgive or even give Morgana remorse. Why should she? And if you saw the trailer, there is going to be more of morgana torturing Gwen, and now Mithian, who doesn't even know her. Yeah, she takes Arthur to Avalon in two versions, so what, what will she do to redeem herself to Gwen, her real victim.
I didn't say Gwen SHOULD FUCKING FORGIVE HER, i said that I THINK SHE WOULD if Morgana would PROVE after many attempts and regret and apologies that she was changed. and I wrote that explanation to you BEFORE Katie even said what she did, that is MY OPINION, but it is in the same lines as Katie's, and I think that her idea of redemption for Morgana being related to discovering that Merlin has magic is a very good one that would make sense in the logic of the story.
She did commit all of those crimes yes, but she did so because she was lied to and denied as a daughter by her own father all of her life, has always felt like a monster and saw all the people like her DIE in front of her eyes for being born with magic. she lived a life of constant FEAR, because Uther would have killed her if he knew the truth about her (because seriously, he killed thousands of CHILDREN, so..), and the Arthur that she lived and grew up with would have done anything that his father would tell him to. Merlin, a friend of hers, tried to kill her as well. and she was so revolted and thristy for revenge of Uther that she would hurt anyone who'd appear along the way including Gwen, not because she did anything to her, since Morgana tried to hurt her before, but because she was on her way. but it is completely stupid and senseless to say that Morgana CAUSED Gwen's father death. HE put himself into the situation that led to his death, but STILL morgana went AGAINST UTHER, WAS FREAKING ARRESTED FOR IT, AND TRIED EVERYTHING TO HELP HIM ESCAPE. It wasn't her fault that he was caught! For god's sake, she even tried to kill Uther at the end of that episode because Gwen's father death was the limit of what she could take any longer and because yes, they were FRIENDS. That argument is so stupid it doesn't even deserve refutation. The only people Morgana knew apart from her "family" were Gaius and Gwen. Gwen and her shared everything, Morgana was always nothing but nice to her, did everything she could to have Gwen back and to help her escape from the men that took them in the Lancelot&Gueneviere episode, they share soooo many hugs during the series, and that's not a normal servant/master relationship, they were indeed friends and you can't deny it.
But because of what the others did to her Morgana changed. She wasn't BORN EVIL, the people that surrounded her and the actions they had upon her were what led her to this, and Gwen was ON THE WAY for her to get to the throne and for her to make everyone like her be accepted in the world she would rule, not having to live in fear anymore and being able to use their magic. Elena and Mithian weren't even threats to her but if they indeed became she would have done the same to them. when Arthur was close to marrying Elena he wasn't yet king, Uther was.
I didn't say she wasn't evil, she is, i am not denying any of that, but she is so because of the bad actions she took to fight for what she believed in, based on her loneliness, emptyness and hatred for those who hurt her. and some were caught in between.
but like, seriously? are you freaking BLIND? couldn't you see how miserable, sad and emotional she was in the scenes of the 4th season I named above? couldn't you see how much the things she did were hurting her? how much it hurt her to see Arthur face to face after all that time (they were both almost in tears), how much it pained her that Uther was dead (even though EVERYTHING he had done to her and to people like her), how sad she felt for bringing back that dead Lancelot (because she recalled all those moments when they were all together and when he was so lively, friendly and noble)? and how much it hurt the others that it was Morgana doing that to them? specially because it was someone they've been very close to! couldn't you interpretate their pain, which equals to THEY STILL CARE, through the actors' acting/performances? just through peoples freaking facial expressions you can see that!
Of course that Morgana DIDN'T and still DOESN'T WANT to care (and that's the reason why she now calls Gwen "that servant" and Merlin "that servant boy" because she wants to cut their relationships as much as possible, but those are just words to mask her own true feelings), because she feels the need to take revenge on all the people who harmed her or who allied with those who did, she wants to think that they are a whole, that they are like one big target to take down to get where/what she wants, but the problem is exactly that she CAN'T NOT CARE. So she murders, she enchants, she does all of those horrible things, and then she suffers for what she did terribly even though she doesn't admit that out loud but you can clearly see that she let's it out through the facial expressions, HOPING that at least her actions have one "positive" aspect, that being getting what she wants. but she is aware that she's doing terrible things and that kills her inside.
And Arthur has grown up with her, they've been like best friends/siblings their whole life, Morgana was the first one to help him see reason and do the right thing, to stand up for what he believed in and therefore she was his basis and the one person who started helping him become who he is today, he owes her that much because without the life experiences they shared he would not be the same person he is today. So, and even though everything she has done he still asks himself why, if he's the one to blame, because he also feels guilty for what she's become and for his people being hurt, just like Gwen, in the process. He feels like he should have protected Morgana as well and he failed, and like he should have noticed first what she was going through. So yes, I am SURE he still loves her. But it's a mix of love, hate, anger, pity, guilt.. of everything because that's why they are complex characters, people, human beings.
The same happens with Gwen. I think she pities Morgana, she has a certain amount of hate for her as well, yes, but Gwen understands what Morgana has gone through and understands her hate for Uther better than anyone. She just doesn't understand what she thinks that is "hate" of Morgana's towards her, Arthur and all the people who cared for her. But that's the thing, Morgana doesn't hate THEM. She hates that they would have been by Uther's side (because in her opinion Arthur would have been and therefore everybody who is with Arthur) and that they can't understand what she has gone through and what she wants for her people, and Gwen can, but Gwen "allied" with Arthur and married him, so she was automatically on the other side and was a threat to her on the throne.
But I think that, because deep down they still care for each other, because there's this huge mix of feelings and since Gwen and Arthur are good people, they would forgive her. If it were the other way around Morgana wouldn't, because she's too proud and "dark", too much like Uther in terms of personality, and Arthur and Gwen are lighter, are compassionate, so I think they WOULD forgive her if she would prove herself worthy, not that they SHOULD after everything she did to them.
You can't ask why Gwen would forgive someone who tried to kill her, because that's your own hate for what Morgana's done showing through, and Gwen doesn't have that kind of personality, doesn't let herself be driven by hate. she forgives, it's in her nature.
So that's it. I'm sorry if you can't understand this. I've NEVER heard ANY Morgana fan say that they thought she had turned evil for good and would never go back, in fact every Morgana fan i know of and even some none Morgana fans want to see her reddeamed and think that that's still possible until the end of the show. this poll is proof of that, so stop making things up saying that Morgana fans admit this or that when that is soooo not true. and i seriously don't know how you can't see that there's still love deep down there, mixed with other things but that is still there, but ok that's your opinion so i don't have anything to do with it, but please leave mines alone. i think you are the only dilusional fangirl over here. you're driven by the hate you have for Morgana, everything you say is against her. at least i can still see the good and the bad in all the characters of the show, I am not the one who's obcessed with Morgana, you don't even try to hear nor to understand what people have to say to support their opinions, you just go straight to taking parts of what people say that enable you to hate on those parts. YOU are an obcessive anti-Morgana fan.
"For god's sake, she even tried to kill Uther at the end of that episode because Gwen's father death was the limit of what she could take any longer and because yes, they were FRIENDS. WHEN THE FUCK DID GWEN SAY MORGANA WAS HER FRIEND, OR INDICATE FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN HER AND MORGANA. I NEED EP AND DIALOGUE. REMEMBER JUST B/C MORGANA SAYS IT DOESN'T MAKE IT FACT. That argument is so stupid it doesn't even deserve refutation. The only people Morgana knew apart from her "family" were Gaius and Gwen. Gwen and her shared everything, Morgana was always nothing but nice to her, did everything she could to have Gwen back and to help her escape from the men that took them in the Lancelot&Gueneviere episode, they share soooo many hugs during the series, and that's not a normal servant/master relationship, they were indeed friends and you can't deny it." I KNEW YOU WOULD MAKE THIS ARGUMENT, TYPICAL BASIC FAN BEHAVIOR. MORGANA DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR GWEN. MORGANA MADE GWEN'S FATHER'S DEATH ABOUT HER, SHE DIDN'T EVEN HELP BURY HER FATHER.MORGANA TRIED TO KILL UTHER BECAUSE UTHER SAID HE WAS THE REASON GLORIS DIED. GWEN WAS ON TRIAL TWICE, DID MORGANA RISKED HER LIFE SO GWEN COULD BE FREED. HELL NO! MERLIN DID. HOW THE FUCK DID GWEN AND MORGANA SHARE EVERYTHING? THEY DIDN'T EVEN SHARE THEIR SECRETS? DID GWEN EAT AT THE TABLE WITH MORGANA, NO. THE ONLY TIME MORGANA GAVE GWEN ANYTHING WAS IN 3X5 WHEN SHE WANTED TO GET HER OUT THE WAY SO SHE COULD VISIT MORGUOSE. IN THE LANCELOT EP. YOU COULD SEE GWEN WAS UPSET THAT LANCELOT LEFT, WHAT DID SHE TEL L GWEN, 'GET BACK TO WORK' IF SHE WAS A FRIEND SHE WOULD HAVE CONSOLED HER FRIEND. MORGANA/GWEN HAVE A MAMMY/PRIVILEGE RELATIONSHIP, GOOGLE IT. GWEN TOOK CARE OF MORGANA AND GOT NOTHING IN RETURN. SHE CARED ABOUT GWEN, YES, I DON'T DENY IT, GWEN WAS HER CONFIDANT FOR SOME TIME, BUT FRIENDSHIP FROM GWEN'S PERSPECTIVE. NO! AND, LIKE I SAID BEFORE WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER. GWEN COULD'VE STARTED HER JOB A YEAR BEFORE MERLIN GOT TO CAMELOT. WE DON'T KNOW.
Elena and Mithian weren't even threats to her but if they indeed became she would have done the same to them. when Arthur was close to marrying Elena he wasn't yet king, Uther was.HOW THE FUCK THEY WEREN'T THREATS? THEY ALMOST MARRIED ARTHUR BUT SHE DIDN'T CARE. MORGANA DOESN'T WANT TO SEE A SERVANT, NOT A NOBLE WOMAN ON THE THRONE SHE WANTS. LEARN DIFFERENCE. SHE'S CLASSIST! OED IT.
" So she murders, she enchants, she does all of those horrible things, and then she suffers for what she did terribly even though she doesn't admit that out loud but you can clearly see that she let's it out through the facial expressions, HOPING that at least her actions have one "positive" aspect, that being getting what she wants. but she is aware that she's doing terrible things and that kills her inside." DID SHE FEEL GUILTY WHEN GWEN WAS KIDNAPPED IN 3X7, NO SHE SMIRKED AND DIDN'T CARE. DID SHE FEEL GUILTY IN 3X7 WHEN THEY HAD ARTHUR IN CENCRED'S DUNGEONS, NO, SHE WANTED HIM TO KILL ARTHUR IMMEDIATELY. DID SHE FEEL GUILTY WHEN SHE WATCHED GWEN BEING TAKEN TO THE DUNGEONS 3X10. NO. SHE SMIRKED, AND DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT. DID SHE FEEL GUILTY WHEN SHE WAS TRYING TO KILL ARTHUR IN 3X8, NO SHE SMIRKED AND WAS MAD GWEN INTERRUPTED HER PLAN. IN 3X13 SHE WANTED TO USE ARTHUR'S DEATH TO HURT UTHER. THEN WHEN HE CAME BACK SHE WAS IN SHOCK AND BROKE A CLASS. DID SHE SHE FEEL GUILTY FOR KNOCKING GWEN DOWN IN 4X2, NO SHE SMIRKED, AND WALKED AWAY. MORGANA DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ARWEN!
"but like, seriously? are you freaking BLIND? couldn't you see how miserable, sad and emotional she was in the scenes of the 4th season I named above? couldn't you see how much the things she did were hurting her? how much it hurt her to see Arthur face to face after all that time (they were both almost in tears) WHEN WAS MORGANA HURT OVER THE CONFRONTATION BTW HER AND ARTHUR IN 4X13, & WHEN IN THAT CONFRONTATION DID MORGANA FEEL GUILT FOR WHAT SHE DID? how much it pained her that Uther was dead (even though EVERYTHING he had done to her and to people like her), how sad she felt for bringing back that dead Lancelot " I SAW IT TOO, BUT IT WASN'T GUILT OVER WHAT SHE DID TO GWEN AND ARTHUR, SHE ACTUALLY THROW A TABLE IN RAGE, BECAUSE ARTHUR AND GWEN DIDN'T DIE 4X2.
"So, and even though every thing she has done he still asks himself why, if he's the one to blame, because he also feels guilty for what she's become and for his people being hurt, just like Gwen, in the process. He feels like he should have protected Morgana as well and he failed, and like he should have noticed first what she was going through. So yes, I am SURE he still loves her. But it's a mix of love, hate, anger, pity, guilt.. of everything because that's why they are complex characters, people, human beings." THIS WAS BEFORE THEY KNEW MORGANA WAS TRYING TO KILL THEM. AND IN SEASON FOUR WHAT INDICATION GAVE YOU THE REASON TO SAY ARTHUR AND GWEN STILL LOVE MORGANA. TRANSCRIPT PLEASE? AND WHY SHOULD GWEN FEEL GUILTY, SHE DID NOTHING BUT CARE FOR MORGANA, ONLY TO BETRAYED.
"and i seriously don't know how you can't see that there's still love deep down there, mixed with other things but that is still there" IDK, THERE'S TOO MUCH ABUSING AND ATTEMPTED MURDER FOR ME TO SEE LOVE BTW ARWEN/MORGANA.
"But I think that, because deep down they still care for each other, because there's this huge mix of feelings and since Gwen and Arthur are good people, they would forgive her." HOW CAN YOU STILL CARE FOR SOMEONE YOU TRIED TO MURDER AND ABUSE?
"So that's it. I'm sorry if you can't understand this. I've NEVER heard ANY Morgana fan say that they thought she had turned evil for good and would never go back, in fact every Morgana fan i know of and even some none Morgana fans want to see her reddeamed and think that that's still possible until the end of the show. this poll is proof of that, so stop making things up saying that Morgana fans admit this or that when that is soooo not true" WHEN THE FUCK IN MY ARGUMENT DID I SAY MORGANA SHOULD NOT GET REDEMPTION? WHEN DID I SAY MORGANA FANS DON'T THINK SHE DESERVES REDEMPTION? I SAID, WHY SHOULD SHE SHE GET REDEMPTION, WHAT HAS SHE DONE YET TO REDEEM HERSELF IN REGARDS TO HER VICTIMS, I.E, GWEN? THIS WAS A QUESTION! LEARN THE DIFFERENCE. READ. NOW, WHO IS PUTTING WORDS IN SOMEONE'S MOUTH. READ CAREFULLY. " at least i can still see the good and the BAD in all the characters of the show," SAYS THE PERSON WHO THINKS GWEN IS 'TOO PERFECT'. YOU'RE FULL OF BS! AND I THINK I STATED IN MY ARGUMENT MORGANA HAS LOVE IN HER HEART, JUST NOT FOR ARWEN! CAN'T YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE.
YES, ONCE MORGANA CARED FOR ARWEN, BUT NOW SHE DOESN'T. IS IT THAT HARD TO SEE. AND INSTEAD OF ARGUING WITH ME, YOU SHOULD REALLY BE ASKING YOURSELF WHY MORGANA FELT GUILTY OVER THE DEATH OF A MAN WHO VICTIMIZED HER, BUT, DIDN'T FEEL GUILT OVER VICTIMIZING GWEN/ARTHUR, WHO DID NOTHING TO HER?
"YOU are an obcessive anti-Morgana fan." WHEN THE FUCK DID I WAS ANTI MORGANA OR THAT I HATE HER? NO, I AM ANTI BS. AND THIS IS WHAT YOUR COMMENTS ARE.
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