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By popular request, an honest question...
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I have an honest question for the fanpop community and I am sure many people will be terribly upset by this article so I would like to throw a caveat out here right now.
If you get offended easily it is perhaps best to pass up this article. I have been a fanpop user sine June 2008. I am a bit older and remember the old days of Nickelodeon. While searching that same subject I came upon this site. I checked around and have ended up joining over a hundred spots. While doing so a question has come up. Why do we need several spots to cover one topic? So I wish to explore this inquiry in a short essay. I have a few possible reasons that my exhausted mind can come up with. 1. The current spot has died due to inactivity. If this is the case maybe it's best to attempt to revive it although I admit in this case it is the least abhorrant reason for starting a new spot. Sometimes it is neccessary to purge the old and refresh with the new. Still, I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth at least tossing an attempt at revival. Solution: Try to revive the old first 2. Lack of activity due to owner complacency. To piggyback on number 1, I think it's obvious some spot owners start a spot and then never update which then results in spot death. Solution: Don't start a spot if you don't want to put time in it. 3. Laziness. I know a large portion of it due to people starting spots and just plain being lazy and making zero attempt to see if one has been started already. In this day of technological wonder it isn't as if we have to search through every single one. Solution: Hit the search button first before creating a spot. 4. (This is the worst in my opinion) Immature pride. Sometimes we have a spot opened but somebody believes they are the larger fan or can do a better job. That may be so but we don't need 10 different spots for one topic just because you think you can do better or only want your friends to be in 'power'. Solution: If you don't like the orignal spot, try to talk to the owner first and drop the attitude. 5. Stacking/Meshing. This one I am really tired of. I am going to try and avoid picking on a specific spot here so if I do nail it, well it's a coincidence. Stacking - Let's imagine we have a Spongebob Squarepants spot. Then on top of that we have a spot JUST for Spongebob. Then someone makes one just for Patrick Starr and then Squidward and Sandy and so forth. That's what I am going to call stacking. You already have a Spongebob Squarepants spot so why can't you discuss Patrick inside that already made spot? Meshing - (I won't lie...this irritates me to no end) I have watched TONS of spots geared towards a certain couple. It happens in one of two ways. (I will use an old show so I don't hurt anyone's feelings and nobody thinks I am picking on them) Let's say you already have a spot for the TV show Wonder Years. Why do we need a seperate spot just for Winnie and Kevin as a couple? Again, all you have to do is put that topic inside the Wonder Years spot. However...if you feel the absoltue need to make a spot just for that couple please please please dont' mesh the darn names. We don't need to call their relationship spot Wevin or Kinnie. Solution: DON'T DO THAT!!! In conclusion I am positive to a certainty of about 99.9% that most people will hate me for this post and will continue to do all these things. Just remember, I am not the only one that thinks this way and it may not be a huge deal but well I felt the need to express my opinion so feel free to loathe me if you wish. Good evening to you all, Kyo |
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It is in this case that I support the making of spots for singular characters or couples, because it is in this way that the "crazy shippers" (whom I adore, but, let's be honest, can get somewhat irritating sometimes) can have their own place to discuss their favorite couple without irking the hell out of folks who don't give a damn.
But all in all, yes. Repeat spots in general are bad. And you laid out your points very well. I applaud you.
#4 there are no spot "owners" no one owns a spot except the creators of Fanpop i guess. If there are problems they should be directed to one of the Fanpop Four.
#5 i don't see "stacking" as much as an issue if it's necessary for the topic. Example: You have Soccer then you have a soccer star (i don't know any, lol) that would be considered "stacking" but it's still can be needed. Or there's Movies and then a separate spot for a movie to add heaps of content to.
Some points are right but i think some are wrong.
I, for one, 100% agree with what you have written and I'm sure many other fanpoppers do too.
What you have expressed is by no means new, those feelings have been aired here many times by many fanpoppers.
Kind regards to you!
But, again, it's a good article and I don't mean to lambast you in any way.
Snerkie's points are valid, but for the fact that many, many people perceive things exactly in those ways. It's the dominant view,as far as I've seen, that the person who creates a spot necessarily is responsible for that spot's content as the spot's owner, and that the creator has special abilities or power over the spot that others do not. Sure, none of that is true, but the vast majority believe it and so they act accordingly.
Needless to say, I don't have a problem with stacked spots (given that I'm active in a number that could be thought of as spin-offs from the Fanpop spot), though I would stress that my recommendation is to wait on creating a "child" spot only when there is obvious need to relieve the "parent" spot of a lot of specific content that would be appropriate to the child. The Fanpop Users spot was created only after a huge amount of user-specific information was posted to the Fanpop spot, for instance. Similarly, the Users Icons spot was created after the Fanpop Users spot's image gallery was inundated with user profile pictures. If Fanpop, Fanpop Users, Fanpop Etiquette, Fanpop User Birthdays, Users Icons, Fanpop's Got Talent, and the Fanpoppies had all been present since day one, it would have been extreme overkill. By all means build more and more specific spots, but I think it's better to do so when there is ample evidence that there will be support for such.
I'll go even more extreme than that: I actually think that it would be good to have a nested hierarchy for spots (or should I say "clubs", since the staff have been pushing that lately?) within channels. Right now, the TV spot/club is at the same position within the TV channel as the Robot Chicken club (sounds like a sandwich at a fast food restaurant, doesn't it?), even though one is clearly the logical child of the other. Similarly, the Movies club, the Film Comedies club, and the Anchorman: Legend of Ron Burgundy club are all parallel to one another. I've been saying for a long time, off and on, that it would be preferable to have a way of saying that a club is related to another club as a parent or child so that, looking at the Donna Noble club, you could see that it is connected "upwards" to the Doctor Who club, which in turn is connected to the BBC club, connected to the Television club. No other relationship would be implied, just a further granularity for navigation between clubs. I think that would be a great boon and would relieve some of the stress on the search function as the sole useful (?) way of navigating between clubs. But that's just me. Certainly it would be pretty complicated to implement.
This has been Harold. Thanks for letting me rant. We will now return you to your regular programming.
I do however agree with you about your other points.
I am so far amazed at the reactions and how calm and collected they are. They are all thoughtful and I have read through every one and as a guy who runs his own website I am of the belief that all comments deserve acknowledgement.
Cinders: I fully agree about the meshing. That is definately a personal thing. It irritates the life out of me but I can fully respect those who are unphased by them and even like them. Thanks for calling me on that (I mean that too...no sarcasm) I am not the type who calls for everyone to agree with me. That makes life boring in the short-term and pointless in the long-term.
vider: Thanks for the comments. I agree completely
Snerkie: #2. Notice I never said they are responsible for all but if you open a spot you should do some honest work in it. For example, the website my wife and I run would be little to nothing somedays if we didn't encourage and spawn new ideas.
#4. Yes, the staff of Fanpop owns this site but if people don't want any responsibility or pride of ownership to their spot then why did they start it in the first place? 'Ownership' was more a term used for the founder of said spot.
#5. Despite the fact that I disagree with your other comments I hold you in very high regard for making a good point here and in a way changing my view. I am not terribly stubborn but it is certainly an accomplishment to change my opinions as I typically come prepared. In broader spots I agree. Having 'movies' should be split into hundreds becasue you don't want to be swamped and lose you 'Ghostbusters' topic inside the movie thread. Kudos for pointing out my mistake on that one. On the other hand in a topic like Spongebob, it is placed around a pretty specific item and I don't think there is much harm in discussing someone like Patrick in the topic or Spongebob/Sandy. Seriously, thank you again and good catch.
Cammie: That kind of made me smile. Yes I am sure it has been aired before and I am by no means original but I felt it time to add my two cents in. Thanks alot for coming off in a non-threatening and lovely manner.
Harold: A man who can write as much as I. Good for you because most nights I can't keep up at this pace anymore.
1. Yes this should be put in etiquette. Well said and I have no argument.
2. I think it can be witnessed in several areas where people feel 'ownership' in the sense of power tripping. "This is my spot and I rule." I would bet money that happens a few times. However my version of ownership was more of a pride in participation and service. Again good catch. I can write alot but I do make mistakes.
3. Good point here! (sorry not trying to patronize you as you seem an intelligent individual) Yes stacking may not be so terrible but I think having ten different spawns with barely any info is overdoing it. Let's say there is a spot for Ally McBeal (just a guess here and not picking on this spot) and there is a spot for Ally McBeal couples. Why then do we also need a spot for each individual couple is what my inquiry is.
4. That is a superb idea using vertical stacking and not lateral as it is now. That would be tough but would be amazing.
Babybell: Well said as well. I liek the openness of this article/comments because now that my original rant is over we can all, with great respect for our felllow humans, come closer to each others' views while keeping our individuality. That uis a fine point about not wanting to dump all the House/Cameron topics into a general spot but again I think I would like to see people wait a bit first.
Thanks alot all!
Look forward to more reading
-Kyo
People will make spots to find content, if they can't find it but make a spot someone will more than likely come along and have content to add to it. Yes "abandoning" as it may seem isn't nice but there are always busy bees out there looking at new spots and adding a link or two or a video, whatever to give it a push and I think that should just matter. Fanpop is a site of collaboration, a community of people sharing the same things so I don't think it should matter if the creator of the spot runs off as there's always other people out there that will add stuff.
I think it's important that the spot creator use at least twenty minutes to make the spot nice. Otherwise people who are joining the spot will never go back there because it's boring. Just find 3 links, a couple of videos, maybe ask a pick and upload a few images. It makes the spot look more attractive.
few, okay i think its awsome that you are only about a month old on fanpop and you are already expressing your opinion like and older user. kudos for that!
from reading all the comments were people have dissagred with you and agreed with you i know dont really have much of an opinion and am somewhat in the middle (not a good place to be for me)
erm...now i am lost for words, but i do know i dont hate you for this. and even if people dislike you because of this no one hates you.
i deffinatly know i respect you as a user more now ♥
claire-aka-bob: Thanks alot. I admit right off the bat I didn't know if your comment was sarcastic but I think it's safe to guess it is straight. I've been a major fan of the idea that young and old deserve their opinions heard so long as they have at least experienced it. For example I would never go off half-cocked on the chat room because I have never been there. Thanks for your kind words.
-Kyo
okay firstly harold as i will always say people who are member of the etiqutte spot already care about etiquette on fanpop, i think this article should be read by those who don't, i'm sorry i always disagree with you on this, but it is talking about clarissarules's opinion on creating spots on fanpop aka i think it belongs exactly here, and i think clarissarules should have put it here as i would have done
on the issue of number 2# i am a person who fully believes if you make a spot it should be something your interested in and want to contribute to because if no one ever shows any interest in it then it's just a waste of space and a bit of clutter, some users maybe be able to says "i have made a hundred spots" wow impressive until you find out that they have made hundred spots with a banner and a icon and put in a wiki link about the topic, i think the making and abandoning comes in to "ownership" part that you guys have talked about, i always see fans making loads of spots just say they have done and then leaving them
as far as making them for information for other fans to fill, there are plently of fans sites out there that will provide this, i don't expect people to add loads and get a medal in it but i do expect a icon and a banner or a icon and a attempt for a banner e.g. asking for one in a forum or something and some content to spark conversation and interest
a lot of you are bringing up the movies having different spots and such, which is fine as far as "stacking" goes, i like that phrase :) i think most tv shows seem to have the following related spots
-the fasion
-behind the scenes
-relationships
-the baddies
-the girls
-the boys
-numberous vs spots e.g. angel vs angelus which only seem to bare a couple of images and the picks "who is better" "who would win in a fight"
-the familys
-quotes
-and everysingle possible mash of names
all of these to me can fit in to the spots it's self, the goodies, the baddies, the girls, the boys, the suntrack, the quotes, whatever arn't they all part of the show????
i understand some couples and characters deserve separate spots because other fans may get a little miffed at all the attention one couple or charcte gets
but for the love of god if there is a spot like "brucas vs leyton" don't dare carry on putting brucas vs leyton content in the original one tree hill spot, urgh, sorry i am very mad about that as that is the reason i have just unsubscribed from one tree hill
anyways thankyou clarriarules, i mentioned in the forum i wanted to write a soapbox like this but would probably loose my cool....i guess i just showed in the comment above lol *hangs head* thankyou for expressing your opinion so well and being accepting of everyone elses,
and i agree with claire not a lot fo new fans get straight stuck with the etiquette issues, maybe having your own site had made you a bit more wise on it but still kudos
usually on a topic like this the usual suspects agree.. more or less at least, some details aside.. on the etiquette of how things on fanpop should be handled.
i very much doubt that the creators of all the shipping spots, hairstyle of an actor spot, favorite dress of one actress spot, mothers of a show spot even read this..and if they do they shrug and go back to posting 1500 images without keywords and writing things like "OMG wat du u thnk iz he the HOTTEST GUY EVA? I HATE U IF U DONT" on said spots.
as much as i agree with all thats been said...i very much doubt that people who dont care now will start to care in the future...but i hope i am wrong!
i love harolds idea aboot making a main spot and then having the possibility to make related ones- i would hope this would reduce double posting a little ( that the same url would not be added at least)
Dupilcate spots do annoy me, though..
I don't mind having spots for couples, as long as it's not all duplication. Also, I hate if a spot for a show is filled with a couple kissing.
Just be sure that the picks haven't already been asked in the spot for the show and don't add the same videos... Try to filter it. Videos and pictures of couples kissing can go to the spot for the couple, videos and pictures of the whole cast can be added to the spot for the show.
i totally get what your saying, i'm very in for ignoring all of these users and just carrying on but i wasn't all up on fanpop ettiqutteness when i first joined and fans ranting and some soapboxes like this helped me within a few days so if we keep at it we will get some great new fans (yes my head is the size of a beachball) that would have other wise taken examples from bad etiquette :)
tinkerluvr- i think that's completley different from some of the examples we're saying are bad...i think i'm not entirely certain who the jonas brothers or miley cyrus is
and yeah aholic completley agree again i'm going to be boring and use a buffy example but some fans will add...and i kid you not i have seen this before...some fans will add a image of spike and buffy, in the spuffy vs bangel spot (meh yeah okay..could go here), the spuffy spot (where it should be), the buffy the vampire slayer spot, the spike spot, the buffy summers spot and the james marsters spot......for some reason they always seem to miss the smg spot, by the way that last bit was sarcastic
drives me up the wall....wow i'm really on a role on the whining front, arn't i?
and well i would love to debate this, but it is not the bigger audience rather than the target audience is my point, so that debate would be phrased incorrectly but sure i'm up for some fanpop debate, i think it would be quite interesting
First off, nicely written ClarissaRules - you've spawned intelligent comments for a variety of members! (That's not an easy feat...)
I just want to give my two cents concerning #2 - ownership of spots/clubs. When we built Fanpop, we specifically downplayed the role of the spot/club creator. There are very few permissions that the club creator has that normal members do not have. We had to give them the ability to make banners, icons, and provide a description for the club. Up to a certain point they can change these, but if the club becomes popular they aren't allowed to anymore because the club really belongs to all the members of the club. It not necessary for the club creator to populate the spot with content or keep being active in it - the club just sits there and waits until someone (or more likely a group of people) who has a passion for the topic show up and build it up more. Since we don't tell anyone who created the spot, you pretty much have to guess (you can use the oldest content trick, but which content type was older if they all say 6 months ago?) or the club creator has to go around telling everyone they made it (and some creators love doing that). In the end, the club should be built up cooperatively and everyone benefits. If critical mass isn't reached, then over time more people join (add one or two things here and there) until six months, a year, or even two years later enough people have subscribed that stuff starts happening. I'd like to move people away from thinking themselves as club owners and more as club contributors - who cares if the club creator isn't a contributor when everyone can pick up the mantle of ownership and build the club into a worth while place to visit / hang out.
There's a glimpse into some of my idealism.
amazondebs: Thanks for the rave review. On #2 I think that was my main point. Alot of people make these tons of posts because like some of the MySpace crowd believe quantity is all that matters and shrug off quality like a bad habit. "Look I have 1000 friends on MySpace." My retort is that I have 9 but I know them all very well. So thanks for supporting that. And yes is 'stacking' ever explodes I want full rights on that one :-p
germany123: I agree completely and you couldn't be more right. First, it probabl won't stop and frankly I am not going to die if it doesn't. Something that I've always found different between debaters and whiners is that in the end the whiners don't realize you can simply walk away. I've been very good so far at not mentioning any specific spots but it seems as if it is ok. I saw the OTH and GG spot backed up by the OTH GG and (now I can't remember the third show). So what was the point of having the OTH and GG spots when the third one covers all three? I also continue to back up Harold with the child spots.
tinkerluver: I agree in your case stated. I for one love Johnny Depp but the thing is (time to get crusified by the masses) I don't believe these newer movies define who he is. I like the Pirates movies but people treat them as his defining opus when I have noticed him since 21 Jump Street. (Did I just date myself?) So yes in this such case it's fine. I agree Miley could have her own spot. I was more discussing when you have a spot for each of her individual characters, then mashups of her characters and such.
aholic: Precisely what I am aiming for. If you feel the need open a spot for the couple, why post the same pictures for the original show?
claire-aka-bob: Thanks for calming my concerns. Despite the confidence I can show in writing, nobody is perfect and I always wonder and wait for how people will react. I won't lose sleep if alot of people would have disagreed but I probably would have stopped answering comments. I do admit that I would still debate because I enjoy it.
micheal: Well I am sure you are used to this but well done on the site. I own a site which is considerably smaller than this by a long shot and I know even at my level how difficult it is. Now then, I think its important that I perhaps redefine this. From this point on I will call it the "spot founder." I agree that ownership isn't a good word for it. I do agree that a founder shouldn't have to be responsible for every bit of content but I think there should be some overall work here and there. That's a fine point however regarding the contributor status. So I can mostly concede that point. Also as far as your comment on my making of intelligent posts for each member, well that's mainly because in my non-internet based life I talk...constantly! I am preparing to graduate with a BA in psychology and phiolosphy and I find debate and discussion are a standard for me. Thanks alot and keep up the fine work.
-Kyo
i am just saying that it would be great to get to the root of the problem (e.g. more obstacles before creating a spot, certain activity neede or they just get deleted, stricter duplicates policy etc).
i was browsing today and found shipping spots for couples that dont exist i.e. one person from 1 show and another from a completely different series..i find that..er...disturbing- and useless but the users there seem to enjoy it! whatever floats your boat!
i dont however understand how the
gg & oc & oth
aaand oc&oth
aaand the oth moms
aaaand the oth families
aaand the peyton and sam( different shows apparently)
aand the peyton ans sam/brooke and dean
can all exist withoot being deleted!?
i reported one that i think got deleted it also had spn in it ..took me a while to figure oot what that was ;D
NOW I want to caution anyone reading this statement that I am not saying these people are freaks or losers by any means. We all have our issues by for certain but I think the problem lies otside this site. As I alluded to before, go look at MySpace and Facebook and see the people bragging about having 1000 friends oh which they know only 10 by person.
-Kyo
well we agree that people wont change their ways (and even therapy wont do any good: for therapy to be successful the person needs to firstly admit they have a problem and be willing to make an effort to change, so..)thats why i think talking and suggesting and encouraging wont really make a huge difference in the long run. instead: rules and restrictions. i realize thats a very unpopular opinion on the access all areas free for all internet anarchy but fanpop is high school and kids need guidance.
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