I just watched Till I hear you sing from LND...and I have to admit...it's a catchy tune...in fact...it's pretty good...Ramin is an excellant singer...but...I still don't like the storyline to LND...Manhattan?!...It just blows my mind...and it's confusing...
I just had the most HORRIBLE/awesome thought. This new mess is going to be set in NYC in 1906, right? Ragtime/LND crossovers. I want one. A good one. Preferably with Emma bitching out Erik at some point.
OMG!!! I just listend to Coney Island Waltz....... I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!! Look,don't kill me, but.... i'm startin 2 like LND....At least the music,might I say......... I still don't have the soundtrack, but I like it, I really do.....
Soundtrack hasn't been released yet. Theoretically it's all finished, but they're not distributing until the show officially opens. I'm doing what I can to see if I can get hold of any leaked copies.
Well, according to amazon.co.uk the soundtrack's release date is
March 10, 2010. It's possible that there may be one or two leaked copies making the rounds throughout the internet, but these are NOT legal or authorized, and I have yet to run across any of them.
lol...Erik...Anyway...I was reading about Phantom of Manhattan and at the end...Christine dies!!! And Pierre is the phantom and christine's child and pierre goes to live with Erik while Raoul goes back to France to bury christine...LOUSY ENDING...LOUSY STORY! Although ALW said he was changing a few things so...I don't know...ERG! I watched Till I hear you sing and it sounds SO GOOD! I don't know...I need to go listen to phantom of the opera...I'm bored...and sad...
lol...Erik...Anyway...I was reading about Phantom of Manhattan and at the end...Christine dies!!! And Pierre is the phantom and christine's child and pierre goes to live with Erik while Raoul goes back to France to bury christine...LOUSY ENDING...LOUSY STORY! Although ALW said he was changing a few things so...I don't know...ERG! I watched Till I hear you sing and it sounds SO GOOD! I don't know...I need to go listen to phantom of the opera...I'm bored...and sad...
Well, they changed the son's name to Gustave in the musical version, but yes, I have a feeling that he will be E/C's love child (argh). As for Christine's death, I don't think that they'll keep that in the sequel. Something tells me that the Phantom will get his happily ever after after all. Bleh.
I'd love to see Erik and Christine together...but this sequel...is just wrong...There shouldn't even be a sequel! Yea...But I know ALW said he made changes to the story because Forsythe backed out because apparently he was not into romance...I don't know where I heard that though...I think I saw it on a website somewhere...Did anyone answer the pick asking if you thought Erik raped Christine?...Eww...Thats just wrong...
Actually Jareth_baby...that was my pick question. The subject has been coming up on a lot of the other boards lately (frankly the idea of it pisses me off beyond reason). It seems to be pretty well gospel in people's heads that the little brat belongs to Erik. The $10,000 question is f***king how?! There are pretty much two schools of thought. 1. ZOMG They ttly had teh hawt sechs!!!11!! Which, makes absolutely no damned sense in the context of the original plot progression. Really. and 2. Erik raped Christine somewhere between when she ripped off his mask (again) and Final Lair. While there IS a costume change for Christine at that point, which has led to all kinds of speculation as to what happened between her being in the DJT dress and the wedding dress. I'm personally of the opinion that, although severely disturbed and highly dangerous, Erik still has some limits. Especially when it comes to Christine. While he is a bit rough with her during the first part of Final Lair, he never actually HURTS her. Even in the novel when she tears off his mask, he doesn't injure her, he grabs her hands and uses her fingernails to cause harm to himself instead. The only reason she ended up tied to a chair while Raoul and the Persian were in the torture chamber was because she had tried to kill herself by slamming her head against the wall. He restrained her to keep her from causing herself injury. When she complained that her wrists hurt to get free and steal the "little bag of life and death" he seemed genuinely remorseful that he had (even indirectly) caused harm to her, insisting that her chaffed wrists were enough cause for him to be worthy of death. I simply cannot see him violating and harming her in such a physical manner. He loved her. Worshiped her, even. There's no way! I just wanted to see what people on here thought about it.
All right...half an hour down and i'm finally up to speed. I think my eyes are going to fall out of my skull...
I only recently discovered that Love Never Dies even existed and quite frankly I feel compelled to say. Not. Happy. Why exactly does the sequel devastate me? Can we count the reasons? (although, after nine pages, i'm sure they've all been listed) A tragedy is supposed to be just that. Leroux's original novel (and the original ALW musical) did not leave you lighthearted and giddy, the emotions they evoked were far more powerful. Raw and richly powerful feelings of hurt, loss, and pain, something much more compelling than the so cliche Disney worthy happy ending. Would anyone remember Romeo and Juliet if the two love birds had ran away and spent their lives hopping jovially through fields of daisies? NO!
Unfortunately, this candy sweet ending is what I see in store for us with LND. Somehow I can't help but predict that we will see a happy ending for Erik (err..hey Andrew, did someone forget to tell you he died?) I won't pretend I'm not a E/C shipper (here it comes, please don't egg my house) but I think I would prefer to leave this phan girl crazy at just that, silly fantasies that I can indulge through self published Phics and the Susan Kay novel I hold so dearly to my heart. I love the tragedy of the Leroux's novel, does Webber not realise that well he tries to weave an ill fitting happy ending he is really destroying what originally drew so many Phantom fans in? Dear god, why can't we just leave well enough alone!
Ok...i've vented. As for the issue of Christine and Erik's love child, I still like to assume that the...err..baby making, was consensual. I'm going to go with Kay (as I can't really conjure another plausible way)Erik would not rape Christine. It's not even debatable in my mind. No. Just no. Kay's idea of Christine going back to Erik after the fact (although not fitting with the original book) Does it work? NO. Does it make sense? NO! Are they going to have to come up with something? It would seem that way. After all, they obviously aren't concerned about the sequel staying coherent with the original, they can swing it any way.
Yea...it's really confusing...There was not enough time for them to do anything between past the point of no return and the final lair scene. To me, LND just seems to be making phantom of the opera...dirty...I just can't see any of the characters from phantom of the opera doing anything that they are doing in LND...and when I read about phantom of manhattan, I don't like the idea of Erik becoming greedy and wanting power and money...I mean I guess it's possible he may like the idea of being powerful...but...it just doesn't seem right...and in LND... When the phantom secretly gives Christine lessons again...wouldn't Christine be suspicious of these lessons she's getting from an unknown person? She must be really dumb not to suspect anything...I wonder what Leroux would do if he were alive and heard of LND...I don't know if I said this already but...In 1919 they made a phantom of the opera silent film and Leroux disliked it so much he had all copies burned... I think I'm going to read the book again...I haven't read it in two years...
O Great Tubby One! Please reach from Beyond to deliver unto Andrew the right bitch smacking he deserves!
In the Angel of Music's name we pray thee,
Amen.
Ok, enough of me being strange.
I will admit that Erik can be a lil bit of a tyrant. I mean, he DID kind of have issues with the challenge of his absolute will, whether from the management of the Opera, the Persian being nosey, Raoul uhm, well, existing, or even from Christine herself. If things didn't go as he liked, he could be an absolute brat and react absolutely beyond reason. I mean, I adore the man, and he obviously lacked the needed social interaction during developmental years to make him sane and adjusted, but still. There really isn't a good defense for most lashing out to such destructive degrees. (Unless you count insanity. But that only serves to move you from one type of government detention facility to another) Even so, I've never viewed a lust for power as one of Erik's driving motivations. Sure, he likes to be in control, but I think he would rather be as untouched by society as possible, rather than seeking to subserviate it. I mean, think about it. If the man was so damned bent on frigging power and wealth, why would he have contented himself to stop with control of the Palais Garnier? Obviously the man is a genius, as well as having talents in multiple fields of expertise. If he had gathered the correct go-betweens to act as figureheads or front men so the public at large would never know what he looked like, it isn't unreasonable to assume that the man could have achieved as much power as he wished. Threats, blackmail, and money will grease an awful lot of wheels, and men who understand how to manipulate other men can get away with almost anything. So, stubborn control freak, yes. Uber megalomaniac of DOOM, not so much.
As to the greed thing. Yeah, he did exploit the management for 20,000 francs a month. I did a quick google search (once again, research is your friend! ^_^ ) and the first answer I came across noted that 20 francs = $4 in the 1800s. I don't know which PART of the 1800s, but this is just some rough figure work, so I'm not going to be overly anal about it. So that would make Erik's allowance from the management equal to about $400 a month. According to the inflation calculator (also found easily on google) that equates to $8,816.36 in terms of today's money. So, that's a pretty decent amount for a monthly allowance. A little over 100,000 a year. Quite comfortable, but by no means insanely rich. He probably could have gotten away with a lot more. According to a 2004 NY Times article, the operating budget for the Opera Bastille today (where most of the operas are now housed. The Palais Garnier mostly performs ballets now) is about $200 million. (The article in question http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/05/magazzine/05OPERA.htm...on= ) So, yeah, 100,000 a year is not really that much in comparison. So, the greed thing, sorry, Andy, not buying it.
Really a shame when 15 minutes of research can completely defunct the entire character concept, isn't it?
dude,its cunfusing! I mean, if Erik gets his happily ever after he deserves, what about the kid? will he have to start his life over? Will Christene legily devorse Raul???? ( we both have a way of saying Raul aka Raoul, guys lol) I mean, I'm getting really confused here.... And, ALW says Erik lives below everything again, so where does he live,THE SEWER????? I've been to NYC, and I think no matter what time period, I think its impossible to live below New York City without being caught and/or going to prison for living down there......... And since Erik runs a freak show on Coney island, he whould HAVE to live near it....( well, he whoulden't REALLY have to, but you whould think he whould......) And since SOOOOOOOOOOOO many people went there, you whould think he whould get caught!!! Come on, Andy, show your stuff already...................
It's spelled "Christine" and although we do both appear to have different ways of spelling "Raoul", mine has the distinction of being correct, while yours is not. I'm still waiting to see hard evidence from you to support your spelling, and until I see it, I'm not going to let up on you. Your spelling is horrific to begin with, but you should at the very least be able to spell the character's names properly!
Either way, at the turn of the century there would have been no high tech surveillance equipment, so I can see absolutely no reason why it would not be possible for Erik to set up shop under the city. Although I do think it's a rather stupid idea.
Look... I almost always spell Christine correct. I was in a hurry..... And also I'm so used to speaking in text, I sometimes spell things incorrectly on a keyboard... And FYI, I have NEVER had anything below an A- on any of my reportcards........ Now do you get it??????? I'm not GREAT with the keyboard........
*Has a great many retorts. All of which just make her sound like even more of a bitter old crone.* All right. How about a compromise? I promise not to give you grief about the typing if you make a conscious effort to spell all of the main character's names--especially Raoul--correctly. Deal?
I can understand occasional slip-ups and typos, and I do appreciate the fact that some people still chicken peck their keyboards. (although I thought that keyboarding classes were now mandatory in schools. I know I had to take one in middle school and the combination of that and a LOT of para-RPing helped my typing skills by leaps and bounds.) However, I find consistent misspellings of names absolutely unforgivable and a touch disrespectful as it is someone's name.
Next year there is typing classes. But can I just say this? Raoul aka Raul???????? And I know, I know, the Christine thing WAS a typo.......But just 1 little mistake won't hurt, will it Phantomess?????????????????? Now then, I will be looking at more info on LND, and then I will show you my report-card grades to prove that I'm a straight A student! BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Yep, there is a box I can find that I can dig my report cards out of........ ;)!!!!!!!!!!
1st Grade Spelling A+. Reading A+. Math A. Grammar A- Social-Studies A. 2nd Grade Spelling A. Reading A-. Math A+.Grammar A- Social-Studies A+. 3rd Grade Spelling A+. Reading A+. Math A-. Grammar A. Social-Studies A. 4th Grade Spelling A. Reading A. Math A-. Grammar A+. Social-Studies A. Well, that is all the report cards I could find. It might be because I liked to sort things out a lot........ But I'll keep looking for the others.
I absolutely did not understand "Raoul aka Raul" Please clarify. Are you upset because you still think I'm wrong, even though JH and I have proven (with multiple examples) that I'm not? Or are you trying to say that it isn't a big deal? I don't understand.
The Christine misspelling was a mistake. That's fine. The problem is that since you insist upon spelling Raoul's name incorrectly I assumed you had done the same thing with Christine's name. But, obviously, you're spelling it correctly now, so it was a typo. My mistake.
Finally: I do not doubt that you have straight As. I, too, went through the American public education system. There's a very good reason I became epically disenchanted with it. As are not difficult to achieve. Especially since research is criminally easy to half-a**. I wonder if they even teach how to write up a proper bibliography anymore....*muses*
At any rate, I, like the rest of the real world, could not care less if you have all As or all Cs. My concern is the practical application of the cognitive abilities you are supposedly absorbing, and the ability to retain information past needing it for some standardized test.
Apologies for any extra bitterness I may be heaping into this. I choose to blame the current book I'm reading, The Dumbest Generation. It's actually a very interesting read, if anyone cares. It outlines how the bombardment of screen stimuli is eroding the cognitive abilities of America's youth. The chapter on the decline in reading is especially depressing.
Yeah, I'm a nerd.
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March 10, 2010. It's possible that there may be one or two leaked copies making the rounds throughout the internet, but these are NOT legal or authorized, and I have yet to run across any of them.
I only recently discovered that Love Never Dies even existed and quite frankly I feel compelled to say. Not. Happy. Why exactly does the sequel devastate me? Can we count the reasons? (although, after nine pages, i'm sure they've all been listed) A tragedy is supposed to be just that. Leroux's original novel (and the original ALW musical) did not leave you lighthearted and giddy, the emotions they evoked were far more powerful. Raw and richly powerful feelings of hurt, loss, and pain, something much more compelling than the so cliche Disney worthy happy ending. Would anyone remember Romeo and Juliet if the two love birds had ran away and spent their lives hopping jovially through fields of daisies? NO!
Unfortunately, this candy sweet ending is what I see in store for us with LND. Somehow I can't help but predict that we will see a happy ending for Erik (err..hey Andrew, did someone forget to tell you he died?) I won't pretend I'm not a E/C shipper (here it comes, please don't egg my house) but I think I would prefer to leave this phan girl crazy at just that, silly fantasies that I can indulge through self published Phics and the Susan Kay novel I hold so dearly to my heart. I love the tragedy of the Leroux's novel, does Webber not realise that well he tries to weave an ill fitting happy ending he is really destroying what originally drew so many Phantom fans in? Dear god, why can't we just leave well enough alone!
Ok...i've vented. As for the issue of Christine and Erik's love child, I still like to assume that the...err..baby making, was consensual. I'm going to go with Kay (as I can't really conjure another plausible way)Erik would not rape Christine. It's not even debatable in my mind. No. Just no. Kay's idea of Christine going back to Erik after the fact (although not fitting with the original book) Does it work? NO. Does it make sense? NO! Are they going to have to come up with something? It would seem that way. After all, they obviously aren't concerned about the sequel staying coherent with the original, they can swing it any way.
In the Angel of Music's name we pray thee,
Amen.
Ok, enough of me being strange.
I will admit that Erik can be a lil bit of a tyrant. I mean, he DID kind of have issues with the challenge of his absolute will, whether from the management of the Opera, the Persian being nosey, Raoul uhm, well, existing, or even from Christine herself. If things didn't go as he liked, he could be an absolute brat and react absolutely beyond reason. I mean, I adore the man, and he obviously lacked the needed social interaction during developmental years to make him sane and adjusted, but still. There really isn't a good defense for most lashing out to such destructive degrees. (Unless you count insanity. But that only serves to move you from one type of government detention facility to another) Even so, I've never viewed a lust for power as one of Erik's driving motivations. Sure, he likes to be in control, but I think he would rather be as untouched by society as possible, rather than seeking to subserviate it. I mean, think about it. If the man was so damned bent on frigging power and wealth, why would he have contented himself to stop with control of the Palais Garnier? Obviously the man is a genius, as well as having talents in multiple fields of expertise. If he had gathered the correct go-betweens to act as figureheads or front men so the public at large would never know what he looked like, it isn't unreasonable to assume that the man could have achieved as much power as he wished. Threats, blackmail, and money will grease an awful lot of wheels, and men who understand how to manipulate other men can get away with almost anything. So, stubborn control freak, yes. Uber megalomaniac of DOOM, not so much.
As to the greed thing. Yeah, he did exploit the management for 20,000 francs a month. I did a quick google search (once again, research is your friend! ^_^ ) and the first answer I came across noted that 20 francs = $4 in the 1800s. I don't know which PART of the 1800s, but this is just some rough figure work, so I'm not going to be overly anal about it. So that would make Erik's allowance from the management equal to about $400 a month. According to the inflation calculator (also found easily on google) that equates to $8,816.36 in terms of today's money. So, that's a pretty decent amount for a monthly allowance. A little over 100,000 a year. Quite comfortable, but by no means insanely rich. He probably could have gotten away with a lot more. According to a 2004 NY Times article, the operating budget for the Opera Bastille today (where most of the operas are now housed. The Palais Garnier mostly performs ballets now) is about $200 million. (The article in question http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/05/magazzin
Really a shame when 15 minutes of research can completely defunct the entire character concept, isn't it?
Either way, at the turn of the century there would have been no high tech surveillance equipment, so I can see absolutely no reason why it would not be possible for Erik to set up shop under the city. Although I do think it's a rather stupid idea.
I can understand occasional slip-ups and typos, and I do appreciate the fact that some people still chicken peck their keyboards. (although I thought that keyboarding classes were now mandatory in schools. I know I had to take one in middle school and the combination of that and a LOT of para-RPing helped my typing skills by leaps and bounds.) However, I find consistent misspellings of names absolutely unforgivable and a touch disrespectful as it is someone's name.
The Christine misspelling was a mistake. That's fine. The problem is that since you insist upon spelling Raoul's name incorrectly I assumed you had done the same thing with Christine's name. But, obviously, you're spelling it correctly now, so it was a typo. My mistake.
Finally: I do not doubt that you have straight As. I, too, went through the American public education system. There's a very good reason I became epically disenchanted with it. As are not difficult to achieve. Especially since research is criminally easy to half-a**. I wonder if they even teach how to write up a proper bibliography anymore....*muses*
At any rate, I, like the rest of the real world, could not care less if you have all As or all Cs. My concern is the practical application of the cognitive abilities you are supposedly absorbing, and the ability to retain information past needing it for some standardized test.
Apologies for any extra bitterness I may be heaping into this. I choose to blame the current book I'm reading, The Dumbest Generation. It's actually a very interesting read, if anyone cares. It outlines how the bombardment of screen stimuli is eroding the cognitive abilities of America's youth. The chapter on the decline in reading is especially depressing.
Yeah, I'm a nerd.
Back on topic!
New rumours? Interviews? Pirated audios or photos?