The Winx Club Article: An Analysis/Slur Of Opinions on How Iginio Treats His Villains

An Analysis/Slur Of Opinions on How Iginio Treats His Villains

posted by zanhar1

So I haven't written an article in a while, for Winx anyways. I find that I keep on ranting about the treatment of the villains but never actually typed an article on it. Some content will be taken from previous comments. So I'll start with Diaspro and Valtor end with the Trix because I have all too much to say there. That said I'm going to try not to make this a complainy/bashing article.

Diaspro

First and foremost, Diaspro. I think a lot of people here have seen me mention that I think she had a rough time. I feel like Diaspro did not need to be villainized. To be honest, she was the victim not Bloom. She was the one who got cheated on. And this is why I can't get behind Bloom/Sky for the sole fact that Bloom stole him from another woman. And the fact that they condoned it and made the victim seem like she was in the wrong, I don't like that at all. They made it seem completely okay that Bloom took another woman's man and on top of that they made Diaspro out to be a bitch for getting mad about it. And this is the first area where in which I see Iginio mistreating his villains. The fact that Diaspro (in my opinion) shouldn't be a villain is an example of how he mistreats them. Iginio totally could have turned it around and had Bloom tell Sky that playing them both was not right to do--because, really he was toying with both of them to some degree. But instead of both ladies coming together to teach him not to cheat, Iginio romanticized his actions and pit the two ladies against each other and then turned the one who was probably hurt the most into the evil one in the situation. Moreover, Iginio aside from Diaspro yelling "he was my fiance" or something of that nature, never even addressed it again. There wasn't even one moment where Bloom looked back on it and said maybe this is wrong. If I have my facts straight (and it's been a while since I've seen season 2) the only time we see her reflect on it was when she was mad at Sky. But she didn't see Diaspro's side; nope, she told him in a fit of frustration "why don't you just go back to Diaspro." In this case Diaspro simply becomes a means to insult Sky.

Granted this was an arranged marriage but I am pretty sure that Diaspro really did love him. After all, she did come back to save him (despite the cheating) in the season 1 finale.

Moreover as the seasons go on Iginio chooses to sink her further into evil. To me it came off as him trying to erase any sympathy and justify Bloom stealing her man. For me this only made me sympathize more and grow more bitter in light of Bloom. Iginio very well could have written up a new man to ease the heartache. He could have had her get over it after a while. Instead he made her into an evil plot device; a way to add drama into Bloom/Sky. "But we couldn't have had the evil Sky episode without her!" I don't think this statement is true. Now this happens in season 3 episode 8. Iginio very well could have written up a plot-line where Valtor or one of the Trix get him on the dark side. Instead Diaspro becomes a play thing or the four and gets snubbed again. But enough about Diaspro.

Tritannus

Surprise everyone, I actually am sympathizing with this guy!

Let's get right down to it; I hate Tritannus. Why do I hate him? Because he's poorly written and he was given a weak motivation to be evil.

The fact that he is written so poorly is yet another indicator that Iginio seems to hate/not care about his villains. Instead of a filler episode lie 'The Lilo' we could have been given some more background on Tritannus. Something to make his motives for trying to kill everyone stronger.

Iginio could have expanded on how Tritannus' father seemed to vastly favor Nereus. Despite the hate I've thrown in Tritannus' direction in the past, I think this is a point where we can sympathize with him and it is something that makes his actions less whiney looking. Honestly it took me until just now to actually realize that him trying to 'take over the ocean' or whatever was probably less about not getting the crown and more about a father who preferred one son to another. Which is another indicator that there is this strong anti-villain vibe coming from Iginio. And I'll admit, maybe I didn't pick up on this due to my own bias or maybe I have my facts all wrong because I wasn't invested in season 5. But if I am right; why didn't we get to see things from Tritannus' side?

This is yet another example of villianizing. Granted Tritannus did do far worse than Diaspro. But Iginio seems to have this thing for making the heroes out to be purer than they truly are. Tritannus' father's (and maybe entire family's) neglection of him was completely brushed aside. Iginio puts so much focus on 'bad guy is bad' that he doesn't show where bad guy is...was actually alright in the beginning. And that 'good guy is not always angelic.'

Darkar

I actually had a harder time fining something to...complain about...here. In general I think he treated Darkar the best really.

Where I can draw my most vivid point with him is yet another case of 'where's the backstory?' When know little to nothing of his history. Again, it's been a while since I've seen season 2 so details may be slipping me, but I don't remember much of a back story. Why is he evil? Is it just in his nature because he's an inhumane creature? If this is the case, it's the one time when I won't knock Straffi for just making 'bad guy bad.' Not every villain has to be sympathetic...but the problem is, none of Straffi's villains are (minus Diaspro, but he doesn't even want us to feel sympathy for her).

And this still doesn't excuse the lack of a back story. Despite my complaints about Darkar he is a cool villain...or at least he had the potential to be. As much as I love the Trix, making them do the work for him took away from that potential. He should have come with them as Valtor had done. But Straffi didn't do that, instead he had Darkar just sitting around until the last few episodes. This isn't uncommon in children's shows, but it's still a peeve of mine no less.

Valtor

So what about Valtor? In general he was treated well enough too. We actually did get a bit more background on him, knowing that he was something of a vessel to the ancestral witches. But beyond that, nothing.

My main problem here is how Iginio made him out to be super powerful and then let the Winx take him down with a deus ex machina. These deus ex machinas will be discussed more in depth with the Trix. However in the case of Valtor it was particularly vexing; even with their enchantix, the Winx should have lost. But of course there were those lovely water stars. In the end it was the water stars that defeated Valtor. And to me that's just pathetic. So what does this have to do with Iginio? This is the second case (the Trix being the first) of Iginio constantly making fools of his villains. The second case of him giving the Winx ridiculously unfair advantages.

The Trix

All of that in mind; I give you the Trix girls! These three lovely ladies seem to get the worst of his anti-villain writing.

First and foremost is that (like all the other villains they are painfully neglected. My point is that there are all of these prom photos for the Winx but then there are barely any for the Trix. For instance we have this; link and the cowboy outfits and the winter ones. And (correct me if I'm wrong) these are all offical arts. Meanwhile the Trix only have one civilian outfit; link and we don't even get to see these anymore.
- Back when Winx first started you couldn't really even find any Trix merchandise. They've gotten better but it's still a pain to find any Darcy and Stormy stuff. And the other villains like don't even exist in the merchandise world. (But we'll get to that later).
- They're not really even on the movie posters (there was like one or two that they were on and one of which only had Icy). Whereas the Winx got on a whole bunch of posters.
- Iginio constantly gave the Winx new outfits and transformations and outfits for events in the show like the balls and concerts but they couldn't be bothered to do so for the Trix--like they'd get a new transformation for like an episode or two but then it'd be gone. And, again their causal /non-witch attire never changed and has been completely omitted in seasons 5 and 6. All the while the Winx are getting new school uniforms and sailor outfits. Alongside this they only recently got new hairstyles (whilst the Winx have been getting them since season 3--and some of them in 2). And even now the 'new hairstyle' they have in season 7 is the is pretty much the same as in season 6. And the Winx get new hair colors in some transformations!
- Speaking of transformations; The Winx get all these transformation sequences. The Trix still don't really have one, unless you count that whole one-time-only bird thing in season 5.

Not only isn't there much merch/art and all that good stuff, but in general they are pushed to the background. The Winx all have complete profiles listing birthdays, favorite foods, favorite colors, etc. The Trix even though they were the main villains 6 seasons and counting, have none of that. To add we have a rather complete view of each of the Winx's family or have at least seen their parents and siblings and know where their home planet is. Again 6 seasons going on 7 now, and we don't even know where the Trix were born. Unless you count 4kids stating that they're from Whisperia. But I have trouble seeing that as legit canon, given the other changes made. I'm surprised that they even showed how they looked as kids.

What I'm saying is; 6 seasons now. Why don't we have even the faintest clue as to why the three are so evil? And I don't buy 'they were born that way'. I can buy that with Darkar because he isn't human. I can buy it with Valtor because he was created specifically for evil. But not the Trix. These ladies were born...or were they? Probably, but we know so little about them literally any headcanon can freaking work!? For all we know (since we haven't seen/nor heard any indication of their parents) they could be just another creation! Of course that's a far-fetched notion but it goes to show how little we know of them--just that they are ancestors of the ancestral witches. So no, for them I don't buy the 'they just are evil thing.' There's gotta be something more. And with all this time, and for the amount of filler episodes Winx has had, I cannot fathom why Iginio hasn't yet addressed this. To me it's an indication of either unskilled or lazy writing. Neither of which is good for a professional.

All of this serves to show that Iginio is negligent of his villains. He doesn't seem to put effort into them, art, promo, merch, nor story-wise. There has been a hugely clear bias established here and I don't think an author displaying clear bias makes for a good story. With good writing (in my own opinion) the reader should be able to tell (at the very least, with ease) who the author favors. Like with the Darkar paragraph, this is something many cartoons are guilty of, but it's annoying no less.
And honestly, even other cartoons like Winx actually give their villains solid back stories...especially since said villains have been there for so long.

As if that isn't a big enough kick in the face; the serious villain decay is unreal. Many of my thoughts on this can be found here; link But to state things within the article, Straffi really just let them fall through the cracks and turned them into jokes. The Trix were perfectly kickass in season 1. They went hard, stole the dragon fire, and summoned an army of 100 years of rot and decay. Icy single handedly took out Red Fountain. Season 2 they were still pretty badass, merging into that one 'mega-trix' (think that's what it was called) among other things. And in season 3 they were still pretty cool; though they did fight over and follow Valtor around at the end of they day they still had their touch; Icy specifically stated that they'd free him "just don't try to give us orders". Yes the orders were given but at the end of the day the three of them parted ways with him. The serious decay happened in season 5 when they had Icy going head over heels for Tritannus and Darcy & Stormy just tagging along. That was embarassing really to a point where I actually did not like Icy anymore. The lord knows how hard it is to get me to hate a character I loved so much. To give ya'll an idea; Icy's the only one it happened with. After season 5 I started liking her again. But season 6 was still just full of the Trix being the comic relief. It really is a pity given how awesome they were in seasons 1-3, 1 especially. They worked better on their own.

The fact that these three fell so far down and were turned into comic relief is just another indicator that Iginio simply doesn't like them. At this point it seems like he hates them so much he may as well just kill 'em off.

So as promised here's where the deus ex machinas become extremely apparent. The Trix are always faced with such ridiculously unfair odds it's hard to watch. Like the cards are stacked so high against them and the odds are so impossible the show itself becomes predictable. I've been in various creative writing courses through my educational career. In one of my textbooks (I don't have it on me at the moment, otherwise I'd pull direct quotes) they gave out this lovely tip for conflict-action. I read something along the lines of; conflict is important to the story, it helps move the plot along and keeps the reader interested. In order to write good conflict one must create tension. In order to create tension there must be a balance of power between the antagonists and the protagonists. This balance--not knowing who is going to come out on top this round--is what creates tension.
Winx Club has completely lost this tension. There is no more "I'm on the edge of my seat, whose going to win", it always "wonder how the Winx will beat the bad guys this time." Especially with the Trix, the villains are barely even granted the small victories anymore. And that just loses me as an antagonist-rooting viewer.

What am I talking about?
Well it started off pretty even, 5 vs 3. That's pretty manageable, in fact (it kind of seemed like) the Trix actually won more than the Winx in that season. However as the seasons progressed the odds became more and more preposterous.

In season 2, however, the Trix had to face both the Winx and the Specialists all at once (6 Winx and, at the time I believe, 5 dudebros). It was 3 vs 11! How the actual hell were they supposed to beat that!? We somehow they actually started to come out on top and they almost had the Winx/Specialists beaten when professor Avalon comes out of nowhere and revives Bloom and beats the Trix for them with his blinding deus ex machina light.

It gets more absurd in season 3. In one episode the Trix again are faced with all six winx and all of the specialists. And this freaking time all of the Winx had their Enchantix. Like holy cow; not only are they fighting like 11 people (so they are at a number disadvantage) but the 6 of said people have convinant power boosts. On top of that the Trix still don't have Disenchantix they only have their regular powers and maybe a left-over gloomix. Ya know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of when I used to play the game Age Of Empires; 6 year old me would go into 'create mode' and acquire myself a huge army and then give the other side an army of villagers and maybe a knight or two.
Straffi's power set up reminds me of 6 year old me cheating a computer game.
And it doesn't even end there. By the end of the fight the Winx take down Darcy and Stormy and Icy is legit left alone to fight 11 people. 11 vs 1! Come on! Granted the boys back down, but 6 Enchantix-powered Winx against one Icy. Yes I'm referring to this;

What could possibly be more of a disadvantage than that? How about 'The Lilo' in season 5? Again, the Trix were winning. They had the Lilo. And as they are leaving the Winx literally had the entire town of Gardenia gathered to help them. All the people had to do was believe and then the Winx got another power boost just big enough to defeat the Trix. Like, give me a break...

And those are only a few of the many examples of being outnumbered/having poor odds. We didn't even touch on how Bloom some how got the dragon fire back in the finale of season 1.

With so many disadvantages for the Trix and easy wins for the Winx it's really hard to not think Iginio treats his villains like crap.

In General

So finally, in general as a whole, like mentioned before there is literally no merchandise of villains like Valtor or Selina. And naturally no promotional art of them either. Perhaps this is because they are 'side characters' but that doesn't excuse why there is so few dolls of Darcy and Stormy. Overall the villains are left out where merch and official art is concerned.

In general pretty much everything is black and white. No of the villains get histories or motivations. They're just evil. At least that's how it appears to people who don't care for headcanons and making predictions. With Straffi the character in question is a good guy or he/she is a bad guy, no in betweens and no grey areas.
And since the bad guy is just pure bad he/she doesn't deserve a back story because a back story creates sympathy and we can't have that now can we?

Long story short, as I see it, Iginio is probably the most hateful author towards his villains that I have ever seen. I like Winx, I respect Iginio for making such a nostalgic show, I just wish he'd put a bit more into his villains.

alice25141, Avater13 and 4 others like this

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zanhar1 @SilentForce [i]Great article.It really bothers me that the villains in Winx Club are too 1 dimensional and don't have any background story.Like you said,I can accept it when it comes to Lord Darkar because he isn't human and even by Valtor because he was created by evil creatures for the whole purpose of being evil but when it comes to the Trix they really need a background story.[/i] Thank you. Exactly, exactly. One dimensional villains are killer to a show because 9/10 the villains are the people who add interest and action into the story. Some villains it makes sense for them to be evil for the sake of the evils but other character, it just doesn't work like that. To not give 'em a story just ruins them as characters. [i]In other magical girl series like Magic Knight Rayearth,Pretear,Sailor Moon,W.I.T.C.H.,Wedding Peach and Angel's Friends the villain/villains have a background story that explains why they are evil while in Winx Club the villains are just evil for the sake of being evil.To be honest,I personally think that Iginio is a pretty bad author which is the reason why Winx Club has become my least favorite magical girl series.[/i] That's another thing I was kind of getting at (while my aim in this article wasn't to compare Iginio to other authors) it just doesn't make sense to me to neglect one's characters to such a point. I guess when talking about this, addressing other shows is probably a good idea lol. That in mind, I'm absolutely with you; Winx is one of my least favorite favorites for this reason. Kim Possible for example; we ain't got much of a back story for Shego but we know that she was once good and the more she fought evil the more allured by it she was. So there's her motive; villainy was fascinating to her. And KP is a children's show too. [i]The villains aren't the only characters that get a crappy treatment,just look at Riven he has been there for six seasons and remained the same type of misunderstood jerk character and the worst of all is that we never get to see the reason why Riven is such a jerk in the first place.[/i] Perhaps I should write an article like this for the boys since you aren't the only person to bring this up lol. Problem is it'd be really short because I'd only be addressing the fact that they are neglected and it would be a repetition of this article. At least they aren't losing every fight and what not. But yeah, the guys don't get much attention either. More than that they get so little attention they're kind of just boring characters that the fandom kind of forgets about as well. Like there is so little complexity to them that I, myself, kind of just don't give a crap about them one way or the other. [i]Another thing that I hate about Iginio's writing is that he sometimes contradicts himself fro example:In season 1 it was made clear that the Ancient Witches killed everyone in Domino but than in the first movie Iginio was like"Bloom just geting her bith parents back?Nah,she deserves much more,we will also bring back her planet and lets not forget to also bring the folk"[/i] Yes! This too! This is another thing that kills me. Like Musa's mother is dead and gone, it was made very clear at that point that dead is dead, end of story. And then Sparks is reborn out of the ashes with everyone in it. [i]First the Dragon fire is being described as the ultimate power then is the first episode of season 6 it turns out that the Beast of the Deppth is more powerful that the Dragon Fire and then by season 7 its like"Nah we were just kidding,the animal with the first color of the universe actually has the ultimate power and not the Great Dragon[/i] Yeah this too. Like for real, pick a 'omg most powerful thing in teh world!!1!!' and go with it. It was this way with Enchantix too; Enchantix was the final transformation...allegedly. And now we have like 10 new transformations. The plot inconsistencies are unreal. I like this show, I do. But it just really gets under my skin sometimes. @lovebaltor [i]I'm really starting to hate on the whole "it's just a kids show" argument by now, because children's mediums have evolved to deal with much more difficult and realistic themes. Winx was made in the early 2000's, so I'll give it leeway for not being the most groundbreaking of cartoons, but they could have at least attempted to evolve the writing, as it is still going on.[/i] This is another point I can agree with that I didn't address in my article. Yeah it's a children's show. But as glelsey so kindly pointed out "[i] I think that in children's media it's even more important for villains to have reasons for their actions.[/i]" As she said, children look up to these characters. Children don't have the full conscious development that adults and teens do. They can't analyze the show as an adult would. So exposure to a less black and white point of view would be really helpful. One day the kids will learn that the world isn't black and white, that there's a ton of moral ambiguity. So why not expose them to some moral ambiguity and sympathetic evil right of the back? It sets the scaffolding of knowledge, it's something they can make a connection to when they come into contact once and for all with matters concerning good and evil. As you mention there are so many other shows aimed at kids where evil isn't one dimensional. Harry Potter, by all means, is children's literature. And Harry Potter hugely exploits that. Shit like this, "I want you to listen to me very carefully, Harry. You're not a bad person. You're a very good person, who bad things have happened to. Besides, [b]the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters. We've all got both light and dark inside us.[/b] What matters is the part we choose to act on. That's who we really are." And again this is a children's book. W.i.t.c.h. gives us another example of this. Nerissa was a good guy. Nerissa was corrupted by the immense power she was given. This not only gives her depth and motivation for her evil deeds, but it also reveals a pretty deep message; good does not necessarily stay good. That's a dark and heavy theme. And W.i.t.c.h. is a kids' show. One more example (my personal favorite) Avatar the Last Airbender. The entier show is full of underlying moral lessons. Uncle freaking Iroh is a walking moral compass dude. He's the wise old man who gives out good advice. Which side is he on? He's [i]Fire Nation[/i]. Anyone familiar with Avatar knows that the Fire Nation is the antagonistic force. Perhaps the most morally sound character in the show is on the 'bad side'! Which is extremely deep because the viewer can then step back and say "hey, wait a minute maybe all of these guards blasting fire at the Avatar aren't bad people. Maybe they are just your average Joe's trying to do their jobs". Avatar gives a human side to all of the characters no matter which side they are on. Even the guards who make one single appearance in the 'Boiling Rock' have human sides; "if you're wondering if you can date the female guards, the answer is no," whispers one. "Not that you'd want to!" exclaims another. And then the female guard turns and throws a cup at him and the three share a laugh. These are the people you were supposed to see as the baddies. But then you take a step back and realize "no, they are just your average people!" And these (again) are three characters who only speak those lines and in those 3 lines alone, one can see a whole story behind them. Point is, Avatar is also a children's show and yet it is teeming with moral ambiguity, deep meaning, and dark complexities. Why can't Winx have that? Why [i]shouldn't[/i] Winx have that. I would honestly argue that most cartoons are actually made with adults in the back of the creators' minds. Some of the greatest cartoonists (like Mike/Bryan of Avatar and the man/woman who created Steven Universe) manage to seamlessly weave underlying adult themes into the child-like plot-line. Iginio just doesn't do that. Moreover the reason that this frustrates me is [i]because[/i] he totally [i]can[/i]! There is so much potential in this show. We've seen Nabu die. We've seen Sparks/Domino fall. We have a fairy in a witch's body. We've had a taste of the deeper meanings but before we can really enjoy them, Iginio seems to just be rid of them for some cheesey go green plot-line. I look at characters like Icy, Darcy, and Stormy and think 'damn, there's a lot you can do here.' It's gotten to a point where I'd just like to take them away from Iginio and write them up some amazing back stories... but I can't because that's illegal lol. @glelsey [i]Anyway, great article! Even though this show is pretty much of the "good always triumphs over evil" type, they could still make it a fairer fight at times. I get that they would want the heroes to probably win in each season finale (although it'd be interesting to see one season end on a cliffhanger!) but even so, it'd be nice to see more victories for the villains leading up to that. That'd make the individual episodes more exciting too.[/i] My point exactly! Hit the nail right on the head. That's really all I want in terms of bad guys winning. Though I think it'd be a freaking awesome twist to have them win thee big battle. I'd be okay with them ultimately losing if they were given a chance to put up more of a fight. Because indeed, it'd definitely make the individual episodes more exciting. In fact this is the reason season 1 is my favorite. There was still a balance of power and the fights weren't insanely rigged. It was more fun to watch! [i]There is one thing I enjoy that's come out of the villain neglect though - I've seen a lot of creative and fun headcanons about them![/i] Okay, yeah, this is definitely a perk lol. Not only do I enjoy hearing the headcanons but I love making them! Winx is probably my favorite show to write fics for because there is just so much ambiguity I can play off of. There is so much left unsaid that anything could happen!

KataraLover Here's how I respond to the comment on how Disney doesn't get criticism for their villains not having backstory but the Winx Club villains do. With Disney movies they can only do so much because their animated films are only an hour and a half long, so they have to make sure that the movie isn't too clunky, so that it can flow more naturally for the audience to follow. Villains are important because they're the conflict but the story has to come first and it can't be too clunky. Winx Club on the other hand, is a TV series that I believe so far is in season 7, so they've had plenty of opportunities to take a break the the good guys (especially Bloom) and give some attention to the villains and their backstory. A TV series can go on as long as it wants. Sure episodes for an animated show are usually at max half an hour, but it can have as many episodes and seasons it wants in order to flesh out all characters, including villains. I mean, Avatar: The Last Airbender managed to have episodes that would focus on the villains backstories. Zuko had an episode that showed both his story and Aang's to show how they are similar to one another (despite being enemies), Zuko had his own episode dedicated to him without any of the good guys there, Iroh managed to get some backstory on how his son died and he spared the last dragons and he changed, there was an episode that showed backstories for Azula and her friends, and in the finale Azula's psychological feelings were explored a lot. That show had it's villains get great and believable backstories on why they were the way they were, unlike this show. Plus there were plenty of times the villains would win and not be brought down by the good guys all the time. Azula almost killed Aang, the freaking Avatar, and conquered the city of Ba Sing Se. That show respects it's villains more than Winx Club ever did! That being said, Diaspro seemed to be horrible, spoiled, and rude even before Bloom attacked her (thinking she was Icy) and stole Sky from her. Plus how she was willing to let all of Sky's friend's die and only came to help him was pretty despicable. But I definitely agree with everything else, especially the Trix. They are completely mistreated by the creator and he obviously doesn't take real conflict seriously.

zanhar1 [i]With Disney movies they can only do so much because their animated films are only an hour and a half long, so they have to make sure that the movie isn't too clunky, so that it can flow more naturally for the audience to follow.[/i] That's another super valid point; Disney has less time to work with.

KataraLover I just realized something that does prove how badly the creator of the show. Pokemon actually has more respect for it's three main villains than Winx Club has for any of it's villains, AND THE THREE MAIN VILLAINS OF POKEMON WERE INTENTIONALLY COMEDIC VILLAINS! The show did make fun of how pathetic Jessie, James, and Meowth were, and when they were defeated they said "TEAM ROCKET'S BLASTING OFF AGAIN!" However, they were surprisingly treated with more respect than The Trix were, who weren't meant to be comedic villains. Jessie for example, came from a poor family, couldn't afford nice things (to the point that in the winter that she and her mother had to eat snow), always failed at everything she tried her hardest at, missed the chance to be the someone from her younger days that she loved to accomplish her dreams that never came true, was the only one at her school not to pass nursing school (the only one she could even get in was one for nurse Pokemon only), and didn't really have any friends growing up. She's had a horrible life that never cut her a break, which explains why she turned to a life of crime because it was the only thing she could do. But she was also given A LOT of depth for a comedic villain. The only friend she made in her nursing school was incompetent but managed to pass thanks to Jessie by helping her. Jessie only failed because of a test where the nurses had to sing the patients to sleep, and considering she wasn't a Pokemon with the ability to sing the patient to sleep, she feel asleep, despite that she did well in everything else. The Pokemon friend she made (don't feel like looking up how to spell the certain Pokemon's name) was the only one at the school who actually cared about her and Jessie cared about it (Yeah, unless someone says the Pokemon's gender, it's called an it). She was patient with it when no one else was. They even met years later (with the Pokemon evolved) and Jessie did use her friend to steal, but felt bad about it and set up an act to where what she and her team stole was returned and her friend wouldn't get into any trouble. Also forced her moth-like Pokemon to leave, so it could find its soulmate during mating season, even though it meant she would never see it again. Her Pokemon refused to leave, but Jessie wanted it to be happy and not regret it like she did when she gave up being with an old flame. She broke its Pokeball, so it had no choice but to leave, which later caused Jessie to break down in tears. She had raised this Pokemon since it was a caterpiller-like Pokemon, and was expecting it to eventually turn into a butterfly-like Pokemon, but when she discovered it didn't, she was disappointed but still loved and accepted it. James came from a rich family but was extremely unhappy. Everything minute of his day was decided for him, his parents even decided who he would marry when he was just a little boy, and it was someone he couldn't stand. No matter how hard he tried at something, he always failed at it, which would, of course, made his parents disappointed in him. His only joy came from a Pokemon he had and when he could be with his grandparents. He eventually ran away from home and turned to a life of crime. He still loved his parents, despite how horrible they were. He would even let go of his Pokemon that he couldn't keep anymore, despite how much it killed him. Meowth was just a street cat Pokemon that had no owner or anywhere to go. He could only steal food in order to survive and would be beaten if he was ever caught and didn't run fast enough. He fell in love with a female Meowth, who said that he didn't have a chance with her because of his low class, the way he talked, and walked. He tried to walk like humans did (Which slowed him down when he tried to steal food) and even learned how to talk like humans. He goes to the female Meowth and she says that it doesn't matter what he does because of class and that now he was just a freak. Years later he meets her again, now being homeless herself because her owner got rid of her. She's involved with his old gang and he fights to get her out (like she wanted) and almost is killed or seriously hurt, yet she stays with the gang leader anyway and says that Meowth is still a freak. Also with all of them together, they still have depth to them. In the movie Pokemon 2000 (Which is just the second movie) they try to help the heroes save the world and even sacrifice themselves and risked dying in order to help. Jessie and James also have their Pokemon, Arbock and Weezing, who were the Pokemon they were the closest to and raised them from when they were young, leave in order to help a group of Ekans and Coughing (Pokemon Arbock and Weezing were before they evolved) and save them from being captured by a Pokemon Hunter. At that point they had only two Pokemon left, Meowth (who is limited) and Jessie's Wabafet (who can only do counter attacks, which wasn't any good with this enemy) and just fought the Hunter and his powerful Pokemon off with their bare hands, seriously injured and almost died. This was A LOT more than anything Winx Club ever did with it's villains, who were meant to be taken seriously but bad writing treated as a joke, and they were meant to be comedic villains. That should definitely tell you A LOT! Boy this was a long comment. Sorry if I bored you with any of this.

SilentForce @KataraLover "With Disney movies they can only do so much because their animated films are only an hour and a half long, so they have to make sure that the movie isn't too clunky, so that it can flow more naturally for the audience to follow. " I kinda agree with GhostLoveScore that Disney is equally as bad as Iginio Straffi when it comes to villains "Its only an hour and half long"isn't really a legit reason for the villain to not have a background."Unico in the Island of Magic" was also a children's movie that was only an hour and half long and yet they did give a background story that explains why Lord Kuruku is evil.He hated the human race because in the past he used to be a puppet that got horribly treated by his owners and in the end he got thrown away,his huge hate gave him life and he decided to take revenge on humans by turning them into living puppets and using them to build his castle.Barbie movies are only 71 minute long direct to DVD releases for little girls and some of them did give background stories to villains such as Gothel from Rapunzel,Rothbart from Swan Lake,Preminger from Princess and the Pauper(a little bit of his background is explained in the"How Can I Refuse?"song),Queen Arianna from Barbie as The Island Princess,Crider from Princess&the Popstar and Gwyllion from Mariposa&the Fairy Princess.Its not always necessary for the villain to have a whole episode to cover up his background,sometimes a little bit of background is more than enough.In"Fushigi Yuugi",Nakago's background story wasn't even 10 minutes long and yet it was enough to explain why he became such an evil person,the same goes for other"Fushigi Yuugi"villains.The explanation of Zagato's true motives in"Magic Knight Rayearth"was also short but enough. Anyway my conclusion is that Disney villains are just one dimensional villains with no good in them, designed to be hated by the audience.Don't get me wrong I like Disney villains because they are entertaining to watch but I find annoying that people always praise them even though they are one dimensional.I also hate it how Disney ruined a complex villain like Frollo by cutting off all the good things that he did in the novel before turning into a villain.In the novel Frollo started out as a good-hearted man,he took care of his younger brother,he took Quasimodo and raised him because he felt sorry for the poor deformed baby,when Quasimodo became deaf he taught him the sign language,it was his lust for Esmeralda that turned him crazy and made him do horrible things.In the Disney version Frollo was already an evil psycho (who was obsessed with with killing gypsies) even before he saw Esmeralda.There is no denying that Frollo is the most complex Disney villain do the fact that he actually doesn't really realize how evil he actually is(which is obvious in"Hellfire)but he still is nowhere as complex as the original character from the novel and please don't use the"Notre Dame De Paris is a novel for adults"excuse because Disney made the movie only darker by changing Frollo

SilentForce @zanhar1 "That's another thing I was kind of getting at (while my aim in this article wasn't to compare Iginio to other authors) it just doesn't make sense to me to neglect one's characters to such a point. I guess when talking about this, addressing other shows is probably a good idea lol." Well I think that it would be a great idea to talk about other shows of the same genre that did a much better job at portraying villains.Since we are talking about other authors.An author who did a great job at writing a villain is Yuu Watase in the"Fushigi Yuugi"manga.The main villain Nakago was a really hateful villain during the whole manga and seemed just like a typical one dimensional villain but in the end we find out that he had a really tragic childhood(the worst childhood that a person could imagine)that turned him into a terrible person.Here we have a villain that the reader hated all along but after hearing his story just couldn't help feeling sorry for him.Since Yuu Watase didn't want to overload"Fushigi Yuugi"with Nakago's background story,she decided to write the"Seiran Den"novel that was all about Nakago's tragic life.

GhostLoveScore @KataraLover I expected nothing less from a Disney fan.Disney fans would never ever admit that their precious Disney isn't as perfect as their thing it is. Anyways I would love if all of you critics(zanhar1,SilentForce,lovebaltor,KataraLover and glelsey )who are saying that Iginio Straffi is a bad writer because of the fact that Winx Club villains are one dimensional,to answer these following questions: Have you realized that critically acclaimed fantasy books that are regarded as masterpieces such as The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia have one dimensional villains with no?Now tell me do you think that J. R. R. Tolkien and C.S.Lewis were also bad writers?And what about Charles Dickens?Was he also a bad writer for having one dimensional villains in some of his works such as Oliver Twist and David Copperfield?

SilentForce ^ General Cassidy never gives up,does she?lol.Anyways,I have to say that you do have a strong point about how many great writers have written one dimensional villains because they didn't want to overload the plot.Look,I'm not asking of Iginio to make 10 episodes that are focused on the Trix's,I just want him to write a background story that explains why they become evil.My biggest complain about the Trix is how their characters got ruined after season 1.In season 1 they were epic villain but than they got reduced into sidekicks.I seriously think that it would be much better if the Trix wouldn't have appeared after season 2 not because I hate them but because of how badly their characters got ruined.

KataraLover @GhostLoveScore and @SilentForce First of all assholes, don't stereotype me as one of those crazed fans that never sees anything wrong with something they like. Yes, I realize I called you both assholes, but after being put in a bull crap stereotype, I don't care. I've criticized many beloved Disney movies, such as Peter Pan and Frozen, which I consider to be awful movies. I've never read Lord of The Rings and am not the least bit interested in it. As for The Chronicles of Narnia, I've criticized the villains and consider the only good villains to be Jades and Lady of The Green Kirtle, who are great villains. Jadis was raised to be cruel since birth, so technically she does have an excuse. Besides, backstories are just a weak attempt to make a villain more interesting. Jafar from Aladdin doesn't have a backstory but is a great villain because of how manipulative, fun, charismatic, devious, cruel, and clever he is. Such as when he made Jasmine think that Aladdin was killed and she believed it was her fault. Iago asked how his talk with her went and he said in a sinister way "I think she took it, rather well." That is absolutely DELICIOUSLY evil! Backstories are good and do add depth to a character, but that doesn't make a three-dimensional villain that's enjoyable. The Trix are enjoyable villains and I consider them to be the best part of this show. The problem is how they're put against ridiculously impossible odds. Such as how Bloom was able to get her dragon fire back, despite that the Trix took it and still had it. There can't be two dragon fires! Disney movies have a good concept of conflict. Maleficent captured Phillip and did plan to get him free, but only after a hundred years when he'd be a stranger to everyone he knew, that is, if he lived that long. As for those Barbie movies, those villains may have backstories (though very weak ones) but the villains are still dull and one-dimensional. Disney at least doesn't make it so that the heroes have to give so little effort in order to win, unlike the Winx Club where all I can think is "Gee, I wonder what the Winx Club will pull out of their asses." I don't care about the backstory if the villain isn't interesting and Disney movies have more going on than just focusing on the villain's backstories. It would make it clunky because they don't have as much time. If I have to choose between backstory or interesting villain in an interesting story with interesting good guys, I'm gonna have to say, get rid of the backstory. zanhar1 was right, the Winx Club fandom really is irritating with poor thought-out arguments that have to resort to immature behavior. zanny, why do you torment yourself with this?

lovebaltor why are y'all bringing up a debate that's been dead for almost two months smh although, you did ask for it. so [url=http://a-deadly-serenade.tumblr.com/post/135294454067]you know what time it is?[/url] Tolkien isn't a bad writer for having one dimensional villains, because that's not why a majority of people go back to his classic series. The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are so acclaimed because of the tales of friendship that it promotes. Sure, Sauron and Smaug are scary, but that's really all they got going for them--like I said in my first comment, "Sauron is literally just a big eye ball that embodies greed and destruction, and Smaug is literally a big dragon the company needs to fight with in order to accomplish their goal." >>i even said the villains aren't what bring people back omg goodbye Just because a story has a villain, doesn't mean that they have be fully developed, like KataraLover mentioned. If there are elements and motifs embedded in a story that are more important to the overarching meaning, then why take that focus away to turn towards the inner turmoils of a dark, brooding knight or dragon? [in reference to TLOTR and The Hobbit respectively] What I think KataraLover is trying to bring to this new argument, is that if the villains are enjoyable, and work well off of the main characters, then why make them intricate? Let's bring in more magical girl show examples, they said, so I shall. Queen Beryl was salty as all hell because Endymion fell in love with Serenity, and that's literally all she adds to the Dark Moon arc of Sailor Moon. She was jealous, which is about as cliched as you can get. But the reason people remember her is because of how the senshi grew and played off of her, especially when it comes to Usagi's growth. The same can definitely be said about Pharaoh 90. Bruh wanted to take over the world and steal the Holy Grail and Silver Crystal. Woowee, that's some [i]intense[/i] psychological motivation right there. Their death was so underwhelming for me when I watched S, but what I got in return was Hotaru's selflessness and Usagi's courage and empathy towards everyone she loves. Most of the big baddies from Sailor Moon are mostly generic, and their big climatic battles last relatively short compared to all of the buildup that they've had within their respective series. However, what makes those parts enjoyable is how the main characters evolve and grow due to the struggles they had to face when overcoming those obstacles. With all of this in mind, this can't even be taken into account when it comes to Winx Club. Sure the girls [i]physically[/i] evolve as they earn their new transformations, but when it comes to [i]emotionally[/i], that's when things can get a bit more hazy. Unless you're counting subtle hints throughout the seven seasons this show has been on, I really can't think of that much emotional development taking place within our main group, and I think that's because they've had nothing to work with. Sure, the Trix are fun and they fuck shit up a couple times within the first three seasons, but apart from that, they're just the typical bad-girl rebels that anyone would expect. Even if they're one dimensional in nature, this could have at least sparked some sort of development within our main cast and crew, especially Bloom since she's always the one to finished off the main villain of the series. But, nope, nothing too exciting has happened to her yet. She's just your usual protagonist, nothing too eye-catching about her at all. And that's a problem. The main character is the one whom you watch/read/hear about the most within a fandom. People should be able to identify with their traits and their struggles. But when you make a leader so mundane and perfect, like Bloom, it gets hard for someone to attach their own personality and plights to them because nothings gone wrong within that characters life. We know Bloom is kind, sure, and she likes to protect her friends, but other than that--there's really not much to her. This is serious issue, at least, I think so, and if the main characters are just about as one dimensional as the villains, then of course we have the right to complain about Iginio's writing.

zanhar1 Oh joy, the butthurt one is back. I log back on to see a shitstorm. @Katara I was wondering what inspired your poll Katara. Ignore this guy/chick, he/she thinks that his/her opinions are facts or something. But yeah I have to agree, if a show that intentionally pokes fun at their villains seems to care for their villains more that's not a good thing at all. At least with Pokemon you got these pretty heavy and deep backstories. Thus proving that just because something is a kids' show doesn't mean it has to be all rainbows and sugar. No worries, long comments are fine by me. Oh and SilentForce isn't being an asshole lol. I'm cool with her, we discuss the show like this a lot and we respect each other's opinions as far as I know. As for the "why do you torment yourself" bit. It's usually not like this. It's really only Ghost who has given me a problem lately. But I'm really kind of over it. Even the Bloom fans lately have been pretty chill with me. So I can't complain atm. @SilentForce By all means I would try to compare it to other shows, problem is; Winx, W.i.t.c.h., and Sailor Moon are really the only three magical girl shows I watch. I mean if we bring Disney in, I'm not super familiar with it. @Ghost For real though. "This coming from a Disney fan" I can say the same for someone who watches 'Angel's Friends'. Honestly Jadis is a kickass villain. It's been a while since I've seen Narnia so I don't really remember if she has a back story or not. However that's not the point. Giving the Trix no background is only one of the problems. Sure C.S Lewis may not give them back stories but he does other things right such as actually giving Jadis fair odds. That is to say when Aslan gathered an army she got one just as big, if not, bigger. She was winning up until the very end. Furthermore Lewis' writing is strong in other areas, his world building is on par and there are less plot holes. Even further (going back to Jadis), you can tell he crafted her character with care despite her not having a backstory; she was really cool ability wise and personality wise--she's the kind of character that almost doesn't need a backstory. She's cruel because she just is, with the way her personality is and the fact that she isn't human, is enough reason to say that she is evil for the lols and was born that way unlike the Trix. As for LotR, I haven't read that one. I've watched it though. And like Lewis, Tolkien's world building and creativity make up for what his villains lack. And like Lewis his villains (such as the eye dude) that thing doesn't need a back story it is a fiery eye of doom created for evil to be evil, it doesn't need a backstory. Gollum has a ton of depth; he used to be a hobbit and fell prey to the ring's influence. He killed his own friend; there's an interesting backstory. As of Dickens, I only read Tale of Two Cities so I can't say anything for his writings. In terms of writing what it comes down to is that he didn't put the effort into the Trix or his other villains (to make them unique or the like) to not give them a backstory. Moreover his writing is flawed in other areas. Loads of plot holes (which may be partially due to the buttload of translations) and the main plot is getting rather drab as well. Hell I ended up dropping the show midway through season 6 because it no longer held my attention. That's not good writing IMO. Key part of the acronym being the O for opinion. Sort of like how you think the 4kids dub is shitty and no one's gonna change that, I think Iginio's writing isn't the best (to put it lightly). I will give him leeway in the fact that I found out that Nick had him lower the target audience age from 11-13 years to 3-6. @lovebaltor Poor Katara just wanted to post an opinion lol. He never asked for the shitstorm! I knew should have bought my umbrella! [i]is that if the villains are enjoyable, and work well off of the main characters, then why make them intricate?[/i] I can't speak for Katara, but this is exactly what I was saying. If they are at least entertaining and well written in other areas besides backstory, it can work. Likewise if they are kind of boring but have a cool backstory it could work. Good writing has at least one of those. Iginio has neither...

GhostLoveScore @KatarLover As I said I expected nothing less from a Disney fan.You have the nerves to call me and SilentForce immature even though you are the one who insulted us.I find it hillarious how in your previous comment you criticized Iginio for not taking a break from the good guys and giving attention to the villains and their backstory but now you are saying that it isn't necessary for a villain to have a background story.You really need to make up your mind.I also find it funny that you took Jafar and Maleficent,who are two villains that would be useless as hell without their magic,as examples for good Disney villains lol.The fact that the villains that depend on their magic powers are the most popular in the Disney fanbase really say a lot about the juvenile judgement that Disney fans have.You are saying that Disney villains are hard to defeat?Don't make me laugh,the villains loose easily in all the final fights of Disney movies.Lets take a look at how they are defeated: The Evil Queen falls of a cliff(as you can see our heroes the dwarfs didn't even need to do anything to defeat her). Maleficent gets stabbed by Prince Philip with his sword that was loaded with magic by the fairies in a 2 minute long fight(this goes to show that Maleficent can only be strong with people who don't have magic powers like her). Ursula pierced by a ship and than struck by lightning. Scar gets defeated by Simba in a 3 minute long fight. Jafar was stupid enough to get tricked by Aladdin to wish for himself to become a genie and gets trapped in the lamp forever. Shan Yu got quickly killed by a firework. Gaston falls off the castle's tower after stabbing the Beast. Frollo falls off the cathedral(again the heroes didn't need to do anything to defeat him). Hades basically just gets punched by Hercules and than falls into the Styx.(what a "hard"way to for a villain to be defeated) Mother Gothel after Flynn cuts off Rapunzel's hair,Gothel's super old body started to crumble to ashes and than she falls off the tower(it seems that Disney couldn't even decide what kind of death they wanted to give to her) and don't get me even started on Hans.

GhostLoveScore @lovebaltor I never said that Tolken is a bad writer,I just took him as an example for a brilliant writer who put more focus in the plot and heroes than on the villains.Its interesting how you actually accidentally end up agreeing with my points.I said before that it is unfair to say that Iginio is a bad writer just because he has one dimensional villains.I don't have anything against if you say that he is a bad writer because you think that his plot is too flawed but accusing him of being bad about doing something that almost every author does is unfair.I also agree that a villain doesn't need to have a background story to be good,its just that it annoys that the Winx fandom is the only one who puts down an author so much just because he doesn't give his villain background,which is the reason why I brought up the disney villains in my argument.

GhostLoveScore @zanhar1(I hope that you wont mind that this comment is going to be too long) The reason why I said Disney fan was because Disney fans have this tendency to think that Disney is superior and never does a mistake,it was also because I was annoyed by KataraLover's double standards(critizing Winx Club but defending Disney for the same thing)."Angel's Friends"isn't nearly as popular as Disney and it has a rather small fanbase.I also haven't seen any"Angel's Friends"fan that considers it as a masterpiece,we only like it because it is a fun series that at certain times has more depth to it(for example in season 2 the villains Cassidy and Kubral want to start the war between angels and devils again,the loosing side will disappear forever which would cause a huge disharmony).At least in"Angel's Friends"they didn't make the ending of season 2 super predictable. GETTING BACK AT THE ACTUAL POINT OF THE DEBATE: Look I have no trouble if you say that you dislike Iginio because you think that the plot in Winx Club is bad or the main characters aren't very well written but I find it unfair to call him a bad writer just because he does something that a lot of writers do(not giving the villains backgrounds).I am simply bothered by the fact that this is the only fanbase in which people give the author a hard time just because he didn't give his villains backgrounds.Thats why i bought up the Disney villains in the arguments because I never see Disney fans complaining about the fact that the villains don't have background stories.I admit that Iginio is far from being a perfect writer which is reflected by the fact that he just doesn't know how to stop(we are going to have season 8),even though the actual story ended after season 3 and The Secret Of The Lost Kingdom movie and all of his ideas after season 4 haven't been the best either.Its seems that he will never end Winx Club until it gets canceled because he is too much tempted by the money and perhaps because of his insecurities that without Winx Club he wont be relevant anymore. I don't consider C.S Lewis,J.R.R Tolkien and Charles Dickens as bad writers,I just took them as examples for a brilliant writers who put more focus in the plot and heroes than on the villains.I agree that Jadis is a great villain and I personally think that what makes her great is her pure bad personality.She doesn't need any background story at all. As for Jadis's army being equal to Aslan's army,the same thing also happened in Winx Club during season 1.The Trix had actually an advantage at first because of the army of decay but in the end the final fight happened only between Bloom and Icy.You could say that Darcy and Stormy were outnumbered by the four Winx but it doesn't matter because Darcy and Stormy were the ones with the stronger powers. The biggest mistake that Iginio did was bringing the Trix back after season 2.He clearly had no idea what to do with the Trix but still decided to bring them back for the sake of the fans which is why they got degraded into joke figures.It would make much more sense to create original sidekicks for the main villains(Darkar,Valtor,Tritannus).

SilentForce @zanhar1 "By all means I would try to compare it to other shows, problem is; Winx, W.i.t.c.h., and Sailor Moon are really the only three magical girl shows I watch." Maybe its because you aren't such a big fan of magical girl series in the first place?Despite the fact that I am a fan of magical girls series,I don't blame not liking most of them because they tend to have some annoying cliches that makes them hard to watch.I would really recommend you to watch"Magic Knight Rayearth"and"Pretear"because these two animes have cut off most of the annoying cliches."Magic Knight Rayearth"isn't filled with stupid and annoying transformations scenes(there is only one transformation when the girls get their magic powers)and the girls can not only use magic but are also kickass sword fighters.There is also an awesome plot twist in the end that nobody could have predicted."Pretear"isn't just about the typical heroine fighting evil but it also deals with serious themes such as depression and solitude and it has a great cast of characters."Puella Magi Madoka Magica"is also good if you want to see a dark version of the magical girl genre(just don't be fooled by the cute animation and first 2 episodes) I would also recommend the anime"Fushigi Yuugi"because Nakago was an epic villain(as I said in my previous comment)and despite the many comedic moments and overdone romance it also focuses on some pretty dark themes like rape,child abuse,attempted suicide and war and it has many tragic deaths in it.When it comes to"Wedding Peach","Pretty Cure"and"Angel's Friends"I think that the only thing that you would like about them are the main villains.

SilentForce @KataraLover You are calling me an asshole just because I am expressing my opinion?Thanks to your insult,I now don't really blame GhostLoveScore for hating Disney fans.I didn't even insult you.Look I said in my previous comment that I actually like Disney villains because they are entertaining to watch but it still doesn't change the fact that they are just as one dimensional as the Winx Club villains.Now don't get me wrong,I have no big problem with villains being one dimensional because that how they are in 90% of the time but what bothers me about Disney villains is that I don't think that most of them have done enough to deserve all the hype surrounding them.Maleficent is just famous because she is the self proclaimed"Mistress of Evil"and because she turns into a dragon,Ursula could have accomplished nothing if it wouldn't have been for Ariel's naivety ,Jafar accomplished so much things only because of his magic,Hades,Facilier and Yzma would have also been nothing without magic.The only Disney villains that I like are Frollo,Scar,Lady Tremaine,Shan Yu and Gaston because they didn't need any magic to archive the things they did.Sorry but I still don't really see how Disney villains are anything better than the Winx Club villains.Sure,the Trix turned into joke figures after season 3 but they were EPIC in season 1 and pretty hard to defeat.They won in 90% of the fight they had against the Winx,took Bloom's power away,awakened the army of decay,declared a war to Magix,completely destroyed Red Fountain,destroyed a section of Alfea and turned Magix into a ghost town(the citizens were completely covered in webs)and they almost won.Lord Darkar,Valtor and The Wizards of The Blakc Circle were also pretty close at winning.The villains only started to get horribly degraded after season 4. As for Barbie movies villains they are 100 times better than Disney villains.Since both Mattel and Disney did their own adaptions of"Rapunzel"lets take both version of Gothel for example.Mattel's Gothel kidnapped Rapunzel because she was made that Rapunzel's father didn't love her.Is it a cliche motive for being evil?Yes it is but it still is a stronger motive than kidnapping someone because you want to use their powers to remain young and beautiful forever(*cough*Mother Gothel*cough*).Mattel's Gothel is a perfect villain arrogant,cold,smart,manipulative.She is even worse than Lady Tremaine because not only does she turn Rapunzel into her own servant and doesn't allow her to do the things she likes(painting)but she also lies to her that her parents abandoned her and she should be grateful to her for raising her.She also used her magic to build a magic wall around the arena of her house so that nobody would ever be able to find Rapunzel.Disney's Gothel on the other hand is more like a joke figure with her constant obsession to stay young.She isn't smart either which is reflected by the fact that she was stupid enough to tell Rapunzel her real birthday even though it was quite obvious that the lanterns were being floated for Rapunzel birthday. Other example of great Barbie villains: Preminger from"Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper"is highly intelligent.Each time when one his plans fails he immediately comes up with a new plan and he was very close at winning in the end. Duchess Rowena from"Barbie in the 12 Dancing Princesses"is very manipulative and intelligent.She came to King Randolph with the pretend to teach his daughters to act like real princesses but her real purpose is to take over the throne.She gradually poison's Randolph until he dies. Queen Arianna from"Barbie as The Island Princess"wants to marry off her daughter Luciana with Prince Antonio in order to take revenge on King Peter for taking away her family's wealth after they tried to kill him.She almost kills King Peter and his entire family by poisoning the food at the wedding.I could take lots of other example but I don't have the time to write them all down.

zanhar1 @Ghost [i] The reason why I said Disney fan was because Disney fans have this tendency to think that Disney is superior and never does a mistake,it was also because I was annoyed by KataraLover's double standards(critizing Winx Club but defending Disney for the same thing). [/i] TBH I'm just not a fan of stereotyping a whole fandom. But I guess I can't really say much on the matter because I've done it myself. I don't particularly think it's a double standard if he can sufficiently back up why he thinks Disney doesn't do the same thing as Winx. But as I said, I'm not deep enough into the Disney stuff to speak of it with any accuracy. [i]"Angel's Friends"isn't nearly as popular as Disney and it has a rather small fanbase.I also haven't seen any"Angel's Friends"fan that considers it as a masterpiece,we only like it because it is a fun[/i] Fair enough. [i]Look I have no trouble if you say that you dislike Iginio because you think that the plot in Winx Club is bad or the main characters aren't very well written but I find it unfair to call him a bad writer just because he does something that a lot of writers do(not giving the villains backgrounds).[/i] Yeah I can agree there, if that's the only reason to call him a bad author it's largely unfair. However as mentioned, it's not the only reason, it's just the one that stands out the most to me as a fan of the villains. Like Rowling didn't give Bellatrix a background but (like with Jadis) the odds were always fair for her in fights and you could tell that (even though Rowling doesn't seem to like her) she still put lots of care into her character. So yeah, a lack of background--among other things--is my main sparkling reason for disliking his writing. But there are other factors in there. [i]I am simply bothered by the fact that this is the only fanbase in which people give the author a hard time just because he didn't give his villains backgrounds.Thats why i bought up the Disney villains in the arguments because I never see Disney fans complaining about the fact that the villains don't have background stories[/i] That's fair enough. I'd be annoyed by that too. But yeah, we've already cleared that I don't think that's the only reason, can't speak for everyone else though. I think the reason they don't complain is because the Disney villains are fascinating enough in the present. The way they are built/written they almost don't need one and would be more effective without. If I remember right though, they do give some villains backgrounds; like they gave The Evil Queen a book called 'Fairest', never read it but I heard it's from her point of view. And even if it doesn't give background it's Disney's way of showing that they care about her character. [i].I admit that Iginio is far from being a perfect writer which is reflected by the fact that he just doesn't know how to stop(we are going to have season 8),even though the actual story ended after season 3 and The Secret Of The Lost Kingdom movie and all of his ideas after season 4 haven't been the best either.Its seems that he will never end Winx Club until it gets canceled because he is too much tempted by the money and perhaps because of his insecurities that without Winx Club he wont be relevant anymore.[/i] Pretty much how I feel here. At this point I feel like Winx is almost a money grab at this point. The writing has just gotten very lazy imo. I mean back in season 3 it was stated that enchantix was the final transformation and now we have like 10 others. That's the kind of plot hole that bugs me.But back to the money thing; I'd be cool with him continuing the show...[i]if[/i] he put the same care as he did back in season 1 into it. But between 'Pop Pixie' and that 'World of Winx' spin off, I feel like the show is just a cash cow. It'd be more sufficient if he just made a new show all together. [i]I don't consider C.S Lewis,J.R.R Tolkien and Charles Dickens as bad writers,I just took them as examples for a brilliant writers who put more focus in the plot and heroes than on the villains.I agree that Jadis is a great villain and I personally think that what makes her great is her pure bad personality.She doesn't need any background story at all.[/i] I think this is another point we agree on. [i]As for Jadis's army being equal to Aslan's army,the same thing also happened in Winx Club during season 1.The Trix had actually an advantage at first because of the army of decay but in the end the final fight happened only between Bloom and Icy. You could say that Darcy and Stormy were outnumbered by the four Winx but it doesn't matter because Darcy and Stormy were the ones with the stronger powers. [i] I think I mentioned this within the article actually; that the odds started out pretty equal. It was as the show progressed that things started to get ridiculous. That's when the Trix were not only out numbered but also greatly dumbed down. Instead of them fighting with only their normal powers (magic Winx & whatever the Trix's equivalent to that is) it usually happened that the Trix would fight with their standard first transformation and the Winx would be Believix which is like four(ish) levels up. As the seasons wore on they had major power boosts [i]and[/i] out numbered the Trix. This is part of the reason why season 1 was my favorite; the power was much more balanced and viewers actually couldn't really tell who was gonna win. [i]The biggest mistake that Iginio did was bringing the Trix back after season 2.He clearly had no idea what to do with the Trix but still decided to bring them back for the sake of the fans which is why they got degraded into joke figures.It would make much more sense to create original sidekicks for the main villains(Darkar,Valtor,Tritannus).[/i] At the very core of this debate, I think we're on the same side. This is where I take issue with it; while I did enjoy them in seasons 2 and 3 (as they weren't complete jokes yet), I could slowly see the decay. And it's disappointing; they were such cool villains. Like you said, it got to a point where I don't think he knew what to do with them (especially after season 3) so he probably should have left them out as to not ruin them. Tbh I truly hated Icy after season 5. So I just pretend like that didn't happen. Which is also where I get off on saying he's a bad author. [u]Literally no other author has been able to make me hate a character I once adored.[/u] I am honestly one of those 'my character can do no wrong' people, so to get me to hate a favorite character is true talent of its own. I think we have pretty much the same opinions but with subtle differences. @Silent I honestly think that Katara misunderstood your comment. He's a cool guy. But that aside, yeah I'm not really big on the magical girl genre. I like the select few mentioned. Magic Knights is alright as well. But I'm just not into it. I'm more of a Full Metal Alchemist, High School Of The Dead, Naruto type anime nerd. I've started Pretear but I never got around to finishing it. My to watch list is overflowing. I've also been meaning to watch Puella. As for the final three you mentioned; yeah probably. The villains are the only reason I like Winx and Sailor Moon (that and nostalgia). W.i.t.c.h. is the only one of the three I mentioned that I actually like other aspects of too.

MalloMar Note: I skipped the paragraphs pertaining to villains I've yet to see. Thank you for dividing them that way. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of bias when it comes to villains in Winx Club. Some of them are interesting and likable, but often don't have much depth or are made to seem much more undesirable or relentless. When it comes to Diaspro and Mitzi (I unintentionally and unfortunately ran into some Mitzi spoilers), it's pretty much a case of 'Anyone who remotely dislikes Bloom is evil.' There's no 'they just don't see eye to eye', it's full-blown villain vs. poor innocent victim. Sorry, didn't mean to make this into a Bloom is a Mary-Sue thing. I heard that Darkar returns/ makes a cameo or something in another season, so I'll have to wait and see if that changes anything. I didn't have much complaints here either. I personally liked Season 3 a lot, and Valtor was great. He was just so calm and majestic, but treated as a real threat. Loved his interactions with the Trix. Uh, anyway, I agree with what you said about him. I was pretty hyped for the last episodes, waiting for an epic battle with Winx vs. Valtor, expecting the Winx having to really use their brains/skills, defying death and being pushed to the limit....Yeah, that was kind of disappointing for me. I like the Trix too. It bothers me that there's not much we really know about them. Keep in mind, I haven't started season 4, but from what you said, it seems nothing's going to change with them in a positive way. I've also heard that we don't ever find out much about Tecna either. It's a shame, since she's my second favorite Winx. Back to the Trix, I don't believe they were just born evil because they're witches either. Notice that not all of the witches at Cloud Tower are portrayed negatively? Very well-written article. Write me some Winx villain fanfic and treat them well, okay? XD Kidding. Wow, you actually had me writing a kind of long comment, which is pretty unusual. I usually go for summarized and straight to the point. Even this one doesn't go that deep. :) I agree with so much of this!

zanhar1 You're welcome lol. It's much easier to organize that way, glad it was helpful for you too. :P I typically watch shows for the villains so it peeves me so very much when they are so extremely neglected like this. [i]'Anyone who remotely dislikes Bloom is evil.' There's no 'they just don't see eye to eye', it's full-blown villain vs. poor innocent victim. Sorry, didn't mean to make this into a Bloom is a Mary-Sue thing.[/i] This is pretty much exactly why I hate it; it's always so one sided. And don't worry I am a firm Bloom hater--she is totally a huge Sue in my books; wrote another article on that. Yeah I loved Valtor loads too. He was a cool villain, it's a shame that the final battle was so very anti-climatic. It really doesn't get much better for the Trix. I don't think they'll be in World of Winx either. Though that may be a good thing due in part to the villain decay that they have experienced. Honestly I think it just keeps getting worse for them. And nah, not too much about Tecna either which really does suck because she's one of my favorites too. Anyhow thank you very much. :D I actually have made quite a lot of Trix fics, they're fun to write. Aw, that's so sweet to hear. ^_^ I'm glad you liked it that much.

MalloMar Funny thing is, I completely ignored the other comments when I typed that. Now that I look them over, DANG! That went pretty deep with the franchise comparisons and all. Anyway, you're welcome! I'm glad you still respond to comments on your older articles. You don't have to respond to this one, since there's not much to say about it. XD

zanhar1 Yeah things got a bit heated up there. xD It's cool, I like responding to the comments I get. Fanpop just doesn't get as much of it anymore so I make conversation where I can. :P

Sirenixfairy Yeah I agree with the post and all but, would you guys like if I had rewritten the seasons after season 4? (seasons 5-8) and made my own season 5? Because I sure do like rewriting things that hade good concepts but ended up being executed terribly. And give me suggestions for what you would like to see for my seasons 5-8 rewrite.

Sirenixfairy And what transformations do you think I should for my rewrites, because I am planning to do the one new fairy form per season thing in my version just like in the first four seasons.

Sirenixfairy or I could probably still add Mythix to season 6 since I think it had lots of potential, and in my version, all seven girls will earn it by defeating a mythical or ancient creature from their home planet.

Sirenixfairy and Butterflix is removed from season 7 since I am planning for the girls to only use Sirenix, Enchantix, Sophix, and Mythix in my version.